Aurea or mixed grove? Or?

[Bamboo4me]

This grove is in Roseville CA. 9A 20-110 F. It's about 500 feet long and 40 feet deep. the culms are up to 3 inches and 40 feet tall. The majority show no compression and some have the white stripe under the internode and some don't. Some look like henon or very blue, others are just olive green located in the same area of growth and light. Another reason I'm thinking it's mixed or something else is my clump I dug out is about a year ago has 15 new culms with none with any compression.
So look at the pictures and give me your feed back.
There is a large Henon grove down the stream about 1/2 mile that is 45 plus tall and over 3 inches in diameter.

Take a look at "Aurea or not?"

http://www.picturetrail.com/uid7580886

thanks!

[needmore]

The compressed lower internodes on Phy. aurea are not always present but as in the photo below, the area under nodes is usually enlarged and in new culms quite blue - I can't say that I saw this in your photos but it is something to look for in ID'ing Phy. aurea.

[Bamboo4me]

Thanks Brad for the reply!
I looked at more pictures and am pretty sure it's Aurea. ? I think it has the water and doesn't stress much due to that. Otherwise I think I'd see more compression. I've had Aurea before and a majority had compression as opposed to a minority.

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience in digging a tortoise shell specimen, will it more likely produce more of the tortoise shell that the straight culms. (My straight culm is definitely producing straight culms) I know it's all genetic, but maybe more of the compressed DNA moves with the Rhizome with more compression) Any studies on this? I'll try it this year and see if my hypothesis has any merit??) I'd really like to see mostly tortoise shell, not just compressed!
Where does the blue come from? especially staying on the old culms!! More genetics??

Thanks!

[Roy]

Thanks Brad for the reply!
I looked at more pictures and am pretty sure it's Aurea. ? I think it has the water and doesn't stress much due to that. Otherwise I think I'd see more compression. I've had Aurea before and a majority had compression as opposed to a minority.

..................

Is there general consensus among temperate bamboo people that stress/lack of water is what causes the compressed/distorted nodes on Phy. aurea?

[foxd]

My impression is that the compressed inter-nodes on aurea are caused by the presence of imperfections in the culm sheath. If also read somewhere that one can artificially make compressed inter-nodes by carefully removing the culm sheaths during growth.

[Bamboo4me]

I've played with pulling culm sheaths a little and it only appears to create curved or zig-zag effect from the few I've done. I didn't get any compressed nodes, but that was just my experience with some other species. I do get the genetic aberrations from Bambusa ventricosa Kimmei without any stress from water etc. I do have it in a pot?? No apparent stress! but 1/3 of the culms are short an bulby and the others are tall and with a some zig zag.

[mike best]

Phyllostachys aurea in Florida. Mine mostly to not have the compressed inter-nodes, only maybe 30% of the culms have it and even less are blue.

[Eastlandia]

Hey Bamboo4me,

I looked through some of your pictures, and I would bet money that its Aurea. Just the compressed nodes on the lower portions and the enlarged culm below each node (similar to what needmore said).

I read once that the "tortoise shell" mutant off of moso because of environmental factors...possibly shade and PH/ moisture (?) I just flipped through David Farrelly's book, but other than some great pictures, I didn't find information about the moso mutant. I'll keep my eyes open for more...

Blue coloration has to do with a lack of a certain type of clorophyll. I'm not for certain, but with a lack in one type of colorphyll, lets say A, then those wavelengths that are normally absorbed are not, letting you see more of those colors. Then again, it could be something in the soil...like the old food-coloring and celery trick.

-eastlandia

[Bamboo4me]

Hi Mike,
I guess you can't get much closer to your picture matching some that I have! How do you post the picture directly to the reply?
How big does the aurea get in Florida? This stuff is very tall and pretty large in diameter. Of course it is so tapered(fish pole) that it is very thin at the top.
Brian,
I think that the different colors might be genetic also. Since this grove can have 3 new culms in a 1 foot radius all with different colors and may or may not have the white stripe under the internode. Interesting about it probably being a Chlorophyll issue (Genetic?)
I'm going to go dig the Tortoise shell culm out and see if I can get more to grow like that from that culm!

[Roy]

I've played with pulling culm sheaths a little and it only appears to create curved or zig-zag effect from the few I've done. I didn't get any compressed nodes, but that was just my experience with some other species. I do get the genetic aberrations from Bambusa ventricosa Kimmei without any stress from water etc. I do have it in a pot?? No apparent stress! but 1/3 of the culms are short an bulby and the others are tall and with a some zig zag.

Same thing here. To get my "Buddha's" (green or yellow/green stripes) to produce bellies I leave them in a pot and water the heck out of them. Once the pot starts filling up with roots, then the bellying starts. At one time I thought perhaps that the reason it started bellying when the pot started getting full of roots was that when I watered them then the water would just go down through the pot and it was a lack of water being retained in the pot. Not sure about that though as I water daily and the leaves never look stressed on the plants.

[Roy]

Hey Bamboo4me,

I looked through some of your pictures, and I would bet money that its Aurea. Just the compressed nodes on the lower portions and the enlarged culm below each node (similar to what needmore said).

I read once that the "tortoise shell" mutant off of moso because of environmental factors...possibly shade and PH/ moisture (?) I just flipped through David Farrelly's book, but other than some great pictures, I didn't find information about the moso mutant. I'll keep my eyes open for more...

Blue coloration has to do with a lack of a certain type of clorophyll. I'm not for certain, but with a lack in one type of colorphyll, lets say A, then those wavelengths that are normally absorbed are not, letting you see more of those colors. Then again, it could be something in the soil...like the old food-coloring and celery trick.

-eastlandia

Is the blue coloring really in the culms or is it the white powder on the green culms that give it a bluish color such as is the case with B. chungii (Tropical Blue) and others that have some white powder on them when the culms are young.

[Michael]

P. aurea will grow to 3 in dia. by 50 ft tall in the best of conditions here in zone 8a in northwest FL. They do best along side a low spot that is the beginning of a drain off or on the edges of swamps. Average size for the large culms (5-10 percent) in these groves is 2.5 in dia. and 45 ft tall.

If planted on a sand hill with Live Oaks and left to themselves they may never reach 1 in dia. or 20 ft tall.

I am talking about unkept groves, I am not sure what the potential of a well kept grove would be. Also I can not say for certain which grove will have the most compressed nodes. It does seem to me that there are more tortoise deformations in the well watered groves.

Michael

[Eastlandia]

Just a thought, but could the plant be "stunting" itself on purpose because due to so much water in its soil it's afraid of falling over?

[Bamboo4me]

Hey Bamboo4me,

I looked through some of your pictures, and I would bet money that its Aurea. Just the compressed nodes on the lower portions and the enlarged culm below each node (similar to what needmore said).

I read once that the "tortoise shell" mutant off of moso because of environmental factors...possibly shade and PH/ moisture (?) I just flipped through David Farrelly's book, but other than some great pictures, I didn't find information about the moso mutant. I'll keep my eyes open for more...

Blue coloration has to do with a lack of a certain type of chlorophyll. I'm not for certain, but with a lack in one type of chlororphyill, lets say A, then those wavelengths that are normally absorbed are not, letting you see more of those colors. Then again, it could be something in the soil...like the old food-coloring and celery trick.

-eastlandia

Is the blue coloring really in the culms or is it the white powder on the green culms that give it a bluish color such as is the case with B. chungii (Tropical Blue) and others that have some white powder on them when the culms are young.

Hi Roy,
It is actually the white powder like Chungii, but it's persistent and doesn't seem to wipe off.(very thin waxy, not like my Textillis.) The others next to it can have none and very different greens. Many of the groupings with different colors are deep in the grove with very little light. Thanks for the ID. I'm going to play with the tortoise shell effect some and see if the genetic trait will more heavily follow the culm with the effect when severed from the main grove.

[needmore]

The blue I see is indeed the white powder and in my experience it does not last long but seems common just under the node.