Best Practices for Propagation during shooting.

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dgoddard
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Best Practices for Propagation during shooting.

Post by dgoddard »

Phyloscachys Aureosulcatta
S.W. Missouri on the border of zones 5&6
Soil: Rocky Clay soil but not pure clay
Ph tends to be acid
This year I have a combination of special problems/advantages/opportunities.
1.
The power company came through and cut trees from the right of way at the roadside. this left gaps in my privacy and dust screen (gravel road). The bamboo groves there need to be expanded there to restore privacy and dust control. But they left me with 3 truckloads of wood chips (the pile is 10 feet wide, 6 feet tall and 15 feet long)
2.
I need to get new groves started for wind break on the West side of the house as well.
3,
Because I limed and apparently got the PH right the groves are putting up stouter, taller faster growing culms than ever before
4.
The new culms came up in a dry week and then the rains came and the growth rate is phenomenal. I actually saw the tallest new culm in my best grove go from about 3 inches shorter than the adjacent old culm to a foot or more taller in an hour and 15 minutes. :shock:

Right now I really need to move a lot of rhizomes and shoots, (of which I have many), to new locations. It the past I have not had the best of luck when the culms are too tall, they tend to break off during transplant or they tend to die off soon after, when they are too tall. I am thinking of cropping the culms at a few feet of length and getting them to branch and leave before digging them up. I have already severed some of the rhizomes from the grove to slow development of culms so that won't be too tall and make the transplant shock less by giving them a little time to develop more of their own roots along the rhizome.

In the past I have taken a significant bit of dirt with the rhizome to try to disturb the roots less, but the extra weight makes them clumsy and heavy. I use a 2'x4' sledge that is about 2 inches tall to move the rhizome, culms and dirt. The low height helps. I can drag the loaded sledge with my lawn tractor to the new location and I can generally relocate the rhizome in about 20 minutes from getting it loose from the ground.

I probably need to relocate about 30 or more of these to get the new groves started. I would like to get the new groves started with a minimal loss of plants and shortest time to getting a new grove established. It has been taking me about 4 years to get new groves up to 6 feet tall and filled in. After that they grow pretty quickly.

Any advice for how to reach my goals faster and better with less work will be appreciated.
By the way, if any of my procedures seem unwise, impractical, counterproductive, unnecessary, or in need of improvement, that is just my ignorance relative to those who are expert and a result of my inexperience as I have only been at this a few years without too much experience and relying quite a lot on my own experimentation. So feel free to cirtique my methods, I will not be offended. There is probably more I do not know than I do know, or think I know. :roll: I have been told that I am a bit far north for the variety of bamboo I have, however I got my original plants by digging them from a local grove that grows very well and seems to be well adapted to this environment, so I suppose it could be a variant of the species. based on current growth trends my best grove will probably go 35 feet tall. It has the advantage of growing on soil that appears to have been trucked in and is near the sewage lagoon (soil here does not percolate worth a hoot) which probably keeps the water table high and nutrient rich.
Tarzanus
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Re: Best Practices for Propagation during shooting.

Post by Tarzanus »

Best propagation during shooting is - leaving the new shoots alone enough to grow branches and leaves. When they are fully leafed, you can start taking divisions. A couple of culms together with rhizomes should be enough to make another grove in a couple of years. Any aureosulcata will start growing new rhizomes as soon as you'll put it into ground.
dependable
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Re: Best Practices for Propagation during shooting.

Post by dependable »

I agree, if you can wait until the new shoots harden off & put out leaves, you 'll end up with a lot more plant than if you try to move them when the shoots are tender.
Tarzanus
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Re: Best Practices for Propagation during shooting.

Post by Tarzanus »

I did try making divisions with growing shoots. They lost way more time that way. Shoots died off, some kept their first couple of nodes and started growing gazillion of branches to save itself. Plants were shocked for quite some time.
T9D
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Re: Best Practices for Propagation during shooting.

Post by T9D »

I always wait until fall or the next season. They still have to grow enough roots to support it too. I think they probably grow more roots to support it after they leaf out. While it's shooting it's getting a lot of it's nutrients from the entire grove through the old rhizome and the roots from the whole grove. Like an umbilical cord.
dgoddard
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Re: Best Practices for Propagation during shooting.

Post by dgoddard »

Tarzanus wrote:Best propagation during shooting is - leaving the new shoots alone enough to grow branches and leaves. When they are fully leafed, you can start taking divisions. A couple of culms together with rhizomes should be enough to make another grove in a couple of years. Any aureosulcata will start growing new rhizomes as soon as you'll put it into ground.
So then taking the plants after they have leaved out would result in me moving 10 to 20 foot tall or more plants. That is of course unless I prune them back. I suppose if I pruned them now that would probably push them into leaving out sooner and leave me with a more managable plant size. Or should I move such tall ones. My most prolific grove in terms of numbers of rhizomes and shoots is the one that puts out the tallest culms. Instinctively, based on other garden work I think in terms of moving smaller plants. Is my thinking in need of extensive revision?
Tarzanus
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Re: Best Practices for Propagation during shooting.

Post by Tarzanus »

Exactly. You can leave the shoots grow up to the height you like and cut off the top. They will grow more leaves all the way to the ground. When you severe the rhizome and start taking divisions, they might show signs of dessication, then you can prune a bit more or keep them shaded, regularly mist their leaves and perhaps cover them with something, so they retain moisture during the day. The more leaves they have in the end, the faster they will start growing and larger culms you can expect the following spring. If all goes well, you can expect slight downsize the first season and explosion the second spring. :mrgreen:
dgoddard
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Re: Best Practices for Propagation during shooting.

Post by dgoddard »

Ok so I got busy and waited for the culms to leaf out. Some I severed the rhizomes and cropped of at about 5 feet, others I left to their own devices until I dug them up. Since I dug them up with substantial root balls I did not want to lift them or handle them unnecessarily, so I made up a sledge out of a 2'x4' piece of 1/2" Oriented Strand Board, (OSB) and on the bottom side I screwed and bonded 3 runners made from 2x2 strips with a 2x4 header screwed and bonded across the front. The runners help greatly in making the sledge follow properly and not side slip. I painted it (white) to improve its weather resistance. This gives me a 2" tall platform to manhandle the freshly dug culms and root balls onto without having to do much lifting.
Load_on_Sledge.JPG
This shows a load of 9 culms on the sledge ready for the 50 yard trip to the new location. I loosely bound the culms together to stabilize the load and the lawn tractor is a much easier way to slide the sledge to the destination rather than drag the sledge by hand It probably weighs 100-150 lbs with all those root balls.
Double_Cordon-Straight.JPG
This is the destination and the source grove is in the background on the right.My tractor shed is simply a steel carport and this view is looking north. The primary strong winds come from the left and right (south west and straight east primarily.) The small utility trailer seen as a white rectangle on the left side of the shed was blown out of the shed last week. the end of the shed seems to catch the wind and make the shed into a wind tunnel.

The light tan pile in the left background is from 3 truckloads of wood chips obtained from the tree service that the electric company hired to clean up the righ of way, AT the far left is a hand truck with a 30 gal garbage can for moving the chips around and after placing the root balls in the trenches and firming them in I mulched the plantings and watered them to help them pack down and relieve the dessication of the plants which they quickly suffered from the transplant shock. Because of the green background and the lighting the previous days plantings do not show up well but they run all the way as far as the front of the yard tractor. Yesterday and today I dug and transplanted about 30-35 culms
Double_Cordon-Angle.JPG
This view gives a little better sense of the project. I am planting a double cordon of bamboo in hopes of breaking up the wind a bit to reduce the wind velocity through the shed.

After mulching with wood chips I dressed the new beds with pelletized lime as wood chips have a reputation for being a bit acid and my bamboo prefers a sweet rather than acid soil.

I figure that in a few weeks I will know how this mode of transplanting is working for me, and maybe by next year I will start to see if my windbreak idea has any merit.
dgoddard
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Re: Best Practices for Propagation during shooting.

Post by dgoddard »

Around about retirement age comes a bit of pacing one's self. The concept that Rome wasn't built in a day comes into play and one realizes that projects can be broken up into phases. Of course the fact that around age 70 one often cannot just keep pushing and get a thing done in a day sort of helps. So as mentioned previously the power company did right-of-way maintenance and I got a bunch of wood chips. Part of those came from trees at the front of our lawn beside the road. The road is gravel and dusty in summer so the bamboo I have planted by the road side serves as functional landscaping and filters the dust out of the breeze.

When they cleared away some of the trees that were growing up into the wires. At one place there was no bamboo and there were two clusters of red Cedar which were growing up around the transformer and they took those out leaving a huge gap in my privacy/dust shield. One picture should help make the situation clear.
New_Roadside_Gorve.JPG
Adjacent to th power pole is one cedar stump and the other is next to the tilled ground These had 7 trunks that fused together at ground level. At the left is the end of one grove of bamboo and in the background is a 3 year growth of bamboo that is just getting to where it does some dust filtering. The tilled strip for a new grove is 5' x 30'. But the best guess is that when the road was built about 40 years ago they
-- buldozed up a bunch of rocks and boulders
-- spread them in a hump and
-- spread dirt over them
-- placed the power pole
Subsequently the cedars grew there.

Right next to the stumps the ground was about 30% rocks and boulders. The observant viewer will notice there is a dip in the bed adjacent to the larger stump, That is where most of th rocks were and even after smoothing the bed the effect of removing the rocks is visible.

At about the left end of the bed is the water supply line, which was installed before they were putting tracer wires on branch pipes so that they can be located, and, if I hit that line, I would have to pay for repairs. (Risks like that keep things interesting.) Hand digging in that mess was out of the question First I had to use the subsoil plow to break loose the rocks and bring them up. Given that the implement runs at about a depth of 16 inches makes that a dicey operation with respect to the water pipe. The subsoiler left the ground so irregular and torn up that I hat to rotary till that with the 4' tractor mounted tiller. That process found rocks that the subsoiler missed but fortunately loosening the ground made it easy on the tiller when it flung them out.

Oh well! All in a days work. and that is just what it was. If you will observe the rock pile in the background you will notice that about half of the top of the pile is about the same color as the soil. That is because they are smeared with the clay soil and will not lighten up until the rain washes them clean. That was about 8 to 10 buckets of 5 gallons of rock carried on a hand truck to speed relocation. Or to put it another way about 350 to 450 lbs of rock. Lovingly hand picked hauled and hefted on the pile by this retiree. They ranged from about the size of my head (knees together, back straight, lift with the legs) to about fist sized So tomorrow perhaps my muscles will not ache too much to get on with digging hauling and planting the bamboo. I will need abut 30 plants, and the last time I did that it took 2 days, but if the weather stays cool then 1 day might not be out of the question. However maybe I will need to take a day off to let my muscles and back recover a bit.

I am certainly grateful for the Tractor + Subsoiler + Tiller I can hardly imagine that task done solely by hand.. It looks like my new bamboo transplant technique (courtesy of the advice I got hree) is paying off and may cut the time to get a reasonable grove developed from 4 to 2 years. .
dgoddard
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Re: Best Practices for Propagation during shooting.

Post by dgoddard »

Once the proper practices are known for how to handle the bamboo, there comes the necessity of doing it. So I am going to present my technique and encourage others to critique my methods to see if anyone can suggest improvements that might make it easier. I suppose that someone might suggest that I use power equipment and that is probably a wonderful idea just as soon as I win the lottery. Until then I am restricted to essentially manual methods. I can transport root balls and culms to the new groves by dragging them on a sledge as I have shown. But the real work is digging them up. Some of what I present here is slanted towards if not utterly specific to my rocky clay soil, yet it may have some more general applicability.

I find that the real labor is getting the bamboo out of the ground at the source grove. Key to my technique is a home made tool I call my "Dig Bar"! I have a basement shop with band saw, lathe, milling machine, grinder, and mig welder, but I must say that the welding is strictly that of a learning novice on what I am about to show.
Dig_Bar.jpg

The 15 pound weight is mostly in the 1 inch diameter 54 inch 1018 cold rolled steel handle, but the ends are the interesting part.
The blade is 0.5 x 3 x 6 inch rectangle and the leading edge was created by laying on 1/8 inch of "McKay Armor Wear" hard facing wire before beveling the end from the other side at a 45 degree angle. The other end sports a hardened O1 tool steel replaceable point. If you look very closely at the pointy end you may notice the smooth diamond knurl on the round bar. It adds a little bit of not slip to the handle, but it must be a smooth knurl not a sharp knurl, unless you happen to have incredibly tough hands. In much of the use you must let your hands slide along the bar.

Also for the highly observant there is a small wrench flat visible on the sides of the tool steel tip, so that it can be removed for replacement. It has a threaded stub but it had best be sealed with removal strength thread sealant lest it get rusted in place.

I originally made it for dealing with the roots of trees that I was clearing along my woodland trails or in my yard. The hard facing steel is one noted for impact and abrasion resistance and intended for digging in the ground. The fancy color scheme is for visibility when it is laying in the grass and weeds etc. The yellow is on only one side of the handle so that when the blade is covered in mud you can tell which way the bevel is facing.

What is important however is how this tool is used to dig bamboo, and for that this 4 image montage is probably quicker than 4000 words.
Dig_Steps.JPG
Knowing that I was going to be establishing some wind breaks and expanding my dust & privacy screen at the roadside, I deliberately allowed my biggest and strongest grove to invade the adjacent lawn this spring and I have harvested about 60 culms from those invading rhizomes this spring. But as I said I have a rocky clay soil. The weather has cooperated with days and days and a few nights during which we have gotten enogh rain to make the cohesion of the soil in a root ball almost optimum. Of course the grass has grown like crazy, but I thnk the sod helps to make the root ball hold to gether all the better, even if it obscures everything.

Accordingly:
-- Starting at the upper left,you can see that I have used grass shears to close crop the grass from around a triple of culms so I can see what I am doing. This is rather important because when it come times to lift the root ball with a shovel if the sod is moving but the culm is not STOP ! The culm is still rooted and further prying will break up the root ball and make a mess.

-- At the upper right the next step is to use the pointed end of the dig bar to make a dotted line that defines the root ball. When the soil is rocky, this is critical as it finds the rocks and their edges so that one does not beat the cutting edge to dullness (as tough as that hard facing is, it has its limits) Also, one sometimes finds the rhizomes this way.

-- At the lower left the cutting blade has been used to "cut on the dotted line". If you look closely you can see the trailing edge of the blade is visible and below the ground surface. One to three thrusts of the dig bar will penetrate 8 inches into the ground, and if it finds a rhizome it will simply cleave right through it. When that happens confirmation that the rhizome has been cut comes from the slight sound it makes and the feel of trying to pull the bar out as the two cut ends are wedged against opposite faces of the blade. Because the blade is beveled on one side only an angled blow will readily allow the blade to cut under the root ball should there be need to cut roots there. There is always one rhizome, usually two because the rhizome usually continues beyond the sprouts that came from it. Occasionally more rhizomes are encountered if there are intersecting rhizomes or branches.

-- In the lower right, a shovel is inserted in the circumfrential cut made by the dig bar and gentle prying lifts the roots. After a little loosening, the shovel is angled to go under the root ball and the final prying is done making sure that the culm is coming with the root ball and that there are no roots or rhizomes that have been missed. At that point with the root ball completely loose, if there are substantial culms, they can be grasped and used to help control the root ball while the shovel is used to lift or skid the root ball out on top of the ground.

The practical size of the root ball is dependent on:
-- the soil condition
-- the soil type
-- degree of root development
and
-- how much your back can lift.

In my case, my 70 year old back ought to be limited to about 70 lb max, but I may have taken a hundred pounder on occasion. but as a practical matter maybe 40 to 50 lbs is better.

the last week or so the soil cohesion has been excellent to the point that the 12-15 foot culms could be carried by lifting the root ball or vice versa if the culms were big and symmetrically placed, they could be used to lift the root ball.

Assuming that one has had the good sense to prepare the destination in advance, the rest is pretty easy. Most of the work is in digging up the bamboo to transplant.

I was impressed to find that what Tarzanus referred to 3 posts ago was readily evident in spite of all the rain we have had and the very high humidity. The leaves show signs of dessication very quickly and the leaves start to roll to conserve moisture. By the time I have dug and am loading the third root ball, leaf rolling has already started on the first one.

Because I was making new plantings within 100 yards of where I was digging Nothing particularly special was required to deal with the dessication. I simply hauled the sledge over to the new location placed the root balls and filled around them. I hosed the ground down to help me press them firmly in contact with their new soil and I sprayed down the leaves with a mist to correct for the leaf rolling. Then I mulched them with wood chips, sprinkled on a bit of lime to compensate for the acidity of the mulch and then hosed down the mulch.

If that sounds plenty easy, I will add that my limit is about 15 culms per day, Of course the humidity has been ridiculous and there is a limit to how much clothing one can take off to keep from over heating while bound up in sweat saturated garments. The breeze helps with the cooling but if it gets too strong handling a 50 lb root ball with three 10 foot culms can be dicey.

Ok, that is the technique I have been using, so if there are any question, say on, and if there are any suggestions as to how to do this more easily PLEASE DO SAY ON! I do love my bamboo, but sometimes it is a bit demanding.

Oh, about that dig bar, if you are not in a position to make one nor want to pay someone else to make one for you, some such things are sometimes found at farm stores around where they keep the post hole diggers and the like, however I have never seen one with a 3 inch wide cutting blade but there may be some. They sell them for digging in hard and difficult soils. However, I doubt you will find any tipped with alloy steels on both ends.
Tarzanus
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Re: Best Practices for Propagation during shooting.

Post by Tarzanus »

An idea. Image

There are SDS plus spade chisels, that would do similar thing. You can check and get the wider one which would go through the soil and even the densest rhizome mass like hot knife through butter. Can be tricky to pull it out, but if you get the widest and longest spade chisel you can get, I'm sure it would do the job perfectly without breaking a sweat.
dgoddard
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Re: Best Practices for Propagation during shooting.

Post by dgoddard »

Tarzanus wrote:An idea. Image

There are SDS plus spade chisels, that would do similar thing. You can check and get the wider one which would go through the soil and even the densest rhizome mass like hot knife through butter. Can be tricky to pull it out, ....
That one on the left looks very promising. The rounded shoulders on the back side of the blade would probably help if yoiu ever got it behind something, however mine has square shoulders there and in the years I have used it, I do not remember encountering such difficulty The problem I see is that they appear to be industrial grade tools and are probably pricey. They also look like they would require the addition of a heavy handle. The tool works because it is an "momentum/impact tool" and weight counts. I sometime describe it as a "linear axe. When cutting tree roots it is thrust down parallel to the trunk with the bevel away from the trunk for the first few strokes to bite into the curve of the root at the stump. It is then turned with bevel toward the trunk so that, for subsequent blows, the bevel propels the blade in a "splitting-shaving" action along the root producing a chip that is then taken off with additional blows at its attached end. It is surprisingly efficient.

Except for the dab of hard facing on the cutting edge and the tool steel tip, mine is made from cheap readily available commodity grade steel. By the time enough steel is used to make it heavy enough, cold rolled steel has more strength than is required. The cost factor came in on mine because they will not sell hardfacing wire is 2 lb spools and I had to buy a 10 lb spool ($150) to get any at all. That is probably at least 3 life times supply for me. However I will have other opportunities to use it.

For any welders among the readers here, a few notes with respect to that hard facing material.
-- If I did stick welding instead of MIG I could have just bought a few electrodes and not spent so much.
-- Even though it is flux core, I could not get it to weld right until I set the polarity for solid core and used Argon CO2 shielding. That finally got rid of the porosity problems.
-- A wire wheel is the only civilized slag removal technique.
-- It will have shrinkage cracks perpendicular to the bead which means it is best to lay it on parallel to the cutting edge for maximum resistance to chipping
-- You have to pre-heat the part before laying it on! A few hundred degrees seems to be all that is necessary to get a good bond.
I milled the end of the blade down to 3/8 before laying a 1/8 ;auer on, leaving a full 1/2 thickness at the very end, then I ground the bevel from the other side. But you could probably just layer it on the blade as long as there was no scale on the blade.
-- Do not waste a file trying to sharpen it. It will quickly destroy the file. A bench grinder or equivalent is required. (e.g. an angle grinder ought to do the trick. That stuff is fearsome hard!
-- No need to worry about heat treat or destroying the temper while grinding, the stuff air quenches and needs no tempering and still actually has some useful ductility.

The O1 tool steel point stands up well to rocks, but will become slightly rounded even with a 90 degree point. at the very tip.

A friend asked me to make him one, and at twenty bucks, I figured it slightly more than paid for the materials, including the paint job.
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