Bamboo flowering times?

[canadianplant]

I have a Phyllosachys Aureosulcata alata, Fargesia Rufa, and SCabrida, and Pseudosasa Japonica. Im just wondering if anyone knows when they are due to flower?

[kudzu9]

I think it is likely to occur in the next 20-100 years. Seriously, no one can predict the cycles with any reliability. Some seem to flower on somewhat shorter intervals (like 20 years) and some have never been recorded as flowering in modern times. If we could predict it, then we would avoid doing things like planting hedges of certain species. The bottomline is enjoy your bamboo, but don't count on them flowering or not.

[canadianplant]

Well, i wouldnt avoid purchasing the ones that are due to flower, id be more inclined to buy them. I know when plants are grown in an enviroment, their seeds, pups, or what not, are slightly better adapted to take the conditions. Because of bamboos usualy long flowering intervals, they apperantly are able to adapt much more so through their offspring then most plants.

So fer instance, if I was to get the Pseudosasa Japonica to survive here say, 5 or 10 years, and it flowers, the plants grown from that seed , should inevitably be hardier, or more adapted to my climate then one grown in toronto. Sure plants adapt to their enviroment in their lifespan, but as far as i know, the offspring are more likley to be hardier and more robust then the parent ( please correct me if im wrong).

So basicly, in that theory, i have a chance at making a marginal bamboo, less so..

[Alan_L]

I don't think you can make that generalization.

[canadianplant]

Assuming and making generlizations is trying to figure it out, and like i said i would love to try it out myself. And it istn a generlization to say plants seeds, or offspring are inharently better suited to their envoriment then there parents...

[Alan_L]

That's what I mean -- I don't think it's true that the offspring are better suited to the environment they were "born" in. Some of them may be, but in general they'd be equivalent to the parent plant.

Maybe I'm wrong.

[canadianplant]

No problem, hell I could be wrong too, which is why i was asking for other people opinions. But saying " I cant say that", frankly is a bit rude.

No harm done dude dont worry, i know you meant nothing by it at all.....

[ghmerrill]

Actually, he said "I don't think you can make that generalization"

Big difference in meaning from "you can't say that"

I know there is no way Alan meant his statement to be a put down

Anyway, I don't think that the offspring in general will tend toward more hardiness, but rather, if there is a genetic quirk that allows one seedling to survive better, then that plant would out perform others. That type of genetic difference would be just as likely to occur in the tropics as the cold north, but would be more obvious in a cold environment.

[Alan_L]

Yeah, what Gene said. Sorry if my meaning wasn't clear -- I didn't mean for it to sound like I was trying to keep you from saying whatever you want.

Just as long as you don't post about botfly-infested turtles. Now *that* I have a problem with.

[va_highlander]

Sure plants adapt to their enviroment in their lifespan, but as far as i know, the offspring are more likley to be hardier and more robust then the parent ( please correct me if im wrong).

The truth is that a single specimen of some plant does not really adapt to its environment. Its growth, habit, size, and so on, are obviously affected by its environment, but when we say that some species is adapted to grow in a certain climate, we mean that over successive generations those plants better suited to local conditions survived -- and reproduced -- while those less suited did not survive. This is adaptation through the process of natural selection, known more popularly as "Darwinism".

What you're describing, a process by which some plant might effectively 'learn' how to better adapt to its environment, pass this information on to its seedlings, and as a consequence produce seedlings superior to the parent, is known as Lamarckianism. The evidence as we have it strongly disproves this theory in favor of natural selection.

[Edit: Should note that I am by no means a biologist, but I did sleep with one for seven years...]

[canadianplant]

Alan - Like I said dont worry about it. Typing and txt is a bit vague in lots of ways. Hard to convay what your meaning sometimes..... Ill withhold my curses for next time LOL

Highlander - Thanks fer your input. I would never disagree with darwin, especialy natural selection. The only problem that I have, is that were sticking to science ( in that regard), which is hundreds of years old. Have there really been any real revisions of his theory that are accepted widley yet ( sure theres some). Just becasue it isnt a widley accepted veiw doesnt mean its wrong, or just becasue someone isnt a biologist ( or slept with one ) doesnt mean you have less kowledge.

I have a clearer head today, so lets see if we can abandon what we think we know, and work with logic for a sec:

The plants adapt to their envoriment, as soon as we plant it. Some would be better at adapting then others ( based on animal adaptation). Plants adapting to their areas, is really what drives evolution, do to survival of the fitist, and natural selection. But we have to remember, we arent really playing natures game anymore. Were speeding it up at a rightening pace. Were aiding in moving species accross the globe, and hybridizing, ad now geneticly munipultaing plants. I dont think its fully based on darwinism anymore. We grow plants in a test tube, in perfect sterile enviroments, they are shipped around a few times before its even at our nurseries. I would have to say, the plant really has no time to adapt to its envoriment, casue its constantly changing, intill we get them into our gardens.

Now, Im sorry if I was vague in typing, I didnt mean all offspring and seeds. OF course there would be variation. But look at Trachy palms. Do you think 30 years ago, that there would be soem growing in Ukraine, colder parts of canada ( someone made one survive edmonton temps, unprotected) or even bulgaria? Because the palms have been in an area that is "marginal" or cooler in some ways, it is inevitable for some palms to be quoted as "hardier".

Now my logic for the bamboo seed, is this: Almost all other flowering plants, flower once a year, or all year, or every few years. I cant think of many other plants that have 20 - 100 + year flowering intervals. Becasue most plants set seed once a year, how can the plant produce seed that is truely more robust and hardy? I think they can, but only a small fraction of the seeds, becasue they only adapted to that one year.

In terms of Bamboo, they take 20, 50, 100 + years to flower. Logicly, doesnt this make you thin that the seeds would have a way better chance of having seeds, or a higher number of seeds that are adapted to their enviroment? Especialy if the plant was in its location almsot all its life? Basicly what im saying is, the plant would put all its energy into ONE batch of seeds. And of course as the plant adapts to its enviorment, it may, or may not change genaticly, or in soem way to help it adapt better. Becasue its flowering tiems are so few ad far between, wouldnt it be fair to assume that the plants grown from that seed is inharently better adapted to its enviroment?

I know i read something about bamboo seed being bettr adapted then its parents, but it never gave a reason why. I fi can, i will gladly post the article or link if i can find it in my favorites ( i have thousands of links:S)

[tomgun]

I am not a biologist and have never slept with one, either.

I know nothing, but I doubt if a plant teaches its seeds to be better suited to an environment. I think that what happens is that out of the tens of thousands of seeds the plant produces, the hundreds of seeds that survive best are the ones that like that environment best. Since we don't see the ones that don't survive, it looks like the mama plant brought her kids up right.

It sounds like a hot topic for Penn and Teller.

By the way, my Tsuboi quit flowering. It has been a relatively cool summer here in California. I'm pretty sure it was caused by my Tsuboi halting its flowering.

[Alan_L]

By the way, my Tsuboi quit flowering...

...and died?

My little potted Tsuboi looks terrible. I think I'll be able to scratch this one off my "growing" list pretty soon (whether I want to or not).

[kudzu9]

Alan-
I hope you are collecting your seeds and planting them, or at least offering to share. That is what I have been doing with mine. Maybe we can re-populate the world with uber-Tsuboi cultivars!

[Alan_L]

On this little guy (8" tall) I haven't even bothered checking. I planted some Tsuboi seeds I got from a plant when visiting Seattle last year and got 2 green plants out of that. I also got a few green Pleio. fortunei plants from the seed I collected and planted last year. I haven't had any Sasa senanensis seeds germinate yet (got a whole bunch of those), and my little nitida seedlings are barely surviving.

Growing from seed was fun at first, but not that rewarding right now.