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 Post subject: Phyllostachys primotina
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:04 pm 
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Location: HALIFAX, NS
A few pix of P. primotina in case anyone thinks they might have one. Mine are relatively young, grown from seed received from Munich October 2013, these characteristics could change dramatically. One thing I noticed, rubbing the culm sheath in both directions it's very rough on the upper half, and smooth on the lower half, perhaps of little to no significance.

johnw - +14c & sunny.


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Phyllostachys primotina ex München IMG-20170605-13677.jpg
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Phyllostachys primotina ex München IMG-20170605-13678.jpg
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Phyllostachys primotina ex München IMG-20170605-13679.jpg
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Phyllostachys primotina ex München IMG-20170605-13674.jpg
Phyllostachys primotina ex München IMG-20170605-13674.jpg [ 120.85 KiB | Viewed 318 times ]

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johnw coastal Nova Scotia
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:37 pm 
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Location: Carmichael, CA
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I think I have one, new culms are powdered and a bit of a darker green sort of like Phy nuda, but not quite as dark.

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Brad Salmon, zone 9 Carmichael, CA


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:22 am 
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Location: Comox,BC
John the one you gave me is showing the same coloring as yours. Dark as shown in your pics. I just planted it out so now it should take off. Yours is looking really nice too.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:04 pm 
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Location: Middle Tennessee (Murfreesboro) USDA Zone 6b/7a Record low Jan 1966 -14*F Frost free April 21-Oct.21 Location Details
These pics are of 2016 shoots. I believe primotina and incarnata are the same plant. The shoots seem to be darker red as the plant matures. I'll try to find this years pics. I love the leaves on this plant which are long and narrow. It seems to be fairly hardy.


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David Arnold
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:17 pm 
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David - Be great if you could let me know if the culm sheaths are rough in both directions on the upper half on your more establsihed primotina.

john

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johnw coastal Nova Scotia


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:38 pm 
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David, nice to see you posting again, I hope all is well on your end. The primontina you gave me is still potted producing 12-14' culms, not the dark red sheaths yet. the leaves seem to always be partially curled especially on new culms.

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Brad Salmon, zone 9 Carmichael, CA


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:01 pm 
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Location: Middle Tennessee (Murfreesboro) USDA Zone 6b/7a Record low Jan 1966 -14*F Frost free April 21-Oct.21 Location Details
Thanks Brad. Beth is finally well, and all is returning to "normal". The leaves look like little boats to me, and they move with the slightest breeze.

John, these pics are from last year. This plant began shooting in early April and is now well up with branches and all of the sheaths have fallen. I found a few sheaths on the ground but they are already deteriorating. Remind me next spring please.

Check out the incarnata in the Chinese Compendium, p126-127 sure looks like primotina. I can't seem to find the reference that listed them as co-specific. If anyone knows the reference to which I was referring please let me know.

Here is the url for co-specific incarnata/ primotina. http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-434280

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David Arnold
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:53 pm 
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Location: HALIFAX, NS
Thanks David.

Perhaps Steffen of the German EBS can summarize their findings on P. primotina. Unless you are an EBS member the search finction will not work. My seeds of it came from Munich where it was considered to be of borderline hardiness.

john

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johnw coastal Nova Scotia


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:55 pm 
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John, this is a complex issue. Following the "Flora of China" Phyllostachys primotina is synonymous to Phyllostachys incarnata, but this is actually not true. The plant introduced to Europe as Phyllostachys incarnata looks like the plant David posted. Phyllostachys primotina, however, looks completely different, for instance long narrow leaves, no red margins on the culm sheaths, internodes less white powdery etc.
All Phyllostachys primotina plants in Europe came from the same source, but only the one in Munich flowered in 2012/13. I also got seeds and to me the seedlings do not look like the mother plant. In fact they look very similar to the seedlings of Phyllostachys arcana 'Luteosulcata' which started flowering at the same time.
John, I'am not sure whether or not these are actually Phyllostachys primotina seedlings.
I also attach a picture from my Phyllostachys incarnata taken a few days ago. I have no pictures of my Phyllostachys primotina at hand (mother plant), but I will take some the next days.
Best, Steffen
Attachment:
incarnata_small.jpg
incarnata_small.jpg [ 99.58 KiB | Viewed 178 times ]


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:39 pm 
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Sounds like new labels are in order.

Thanks Steffen.

john

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:56 am 
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Location: Comox,BC
Steffen

My seedling John gave me does not show any bending or a yellow sulcus. Should this take time then to show?

To add to the confusion were primotina and arcana 'luteosulcata ' in the same vicinity at the time of flowering ? Could we have a hybrid ?

No leaf burn what so ever on it this year. In a pot outside and a horrible wet winter we had. Multiple days of freezing temps.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:07 am 
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I would not expect a yellow sulcus as such mutations usually get lost during generative propagation (the outcome would be just plain Phyllostachys arcana). E.g. none of my "true" Phyllostachys arcana 'Luteosulcata' seedlings has a yellow sulcus. I should go through all my seedlings in search for the bending phenotype. If something was mixed-up in Munich and Phyllostachys primotina didn't flower but Phyllostachys arcana did there can be no hybrid. Pure speculation, the seedlings can still be Phyllostachys primotiona, the person in Munich was rather trustworthy.
Steffen


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:24 pm 
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Steffen: Does P. arcana itself show any of the characteristics of the seedlings we are growing? i.e. Especially the darkish internodes. A friend grows P. arcana but it is not very happy, just a little too cold for it. Here are some old pix I took of his P. arcana, I realize these characteristics may not be stable as the plants were only in a few years.

john


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Phyllostachys arcana @ Kingstec-20120620-00718.jpg
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Phyllostachys arcana NSCC Kings, Subd. B-20130522-03556.jpg
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Phyllostachys arcana NSCC Kings, Subd. B-20130522-03554.jpg
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Phyllostachys arcana Kingstec .jpg
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Phyllostachys arcana Kings, Subd. B-20120816-01444.jpg
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Phyllostachys arcana @ Kingstec-20120620-00717.jpg
Phyllostachys arcana @ Kingstec-20120620-00717.jpg [ 292.95 KiB | Viewed 141 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:34 pm 
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I also wonder if anyone wonder photographed the arcana seed. The "primotina" seed looked fairly distinctive to me but perhaps not as I've only seen kwang & flexuosa seed.

john


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Phyllostachys primotina seed Halifax-20131022-00501.jpg
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Phyllostachys primotina seeds  husked Halifax-20131024-00513.jpg
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Phyllostachys primotina seeds un-husked Halifax-20131024-00512.jpg
Phyllostachys primotina seeds un-husked Halifax-20131024-00512.jpg [ 196.74 KiB | Viewed 139 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:50 pm 
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I only took pics from Primotina (see below), but I think Arcana is still flowering in Jürgens garden. I will ask him to collect some more seeds. Last week we decided to collect no seeds this year as we have so many seedlings ;-)
Steffen
Attachment:
Primotina_seeds_13_small.jpg
Primotina_seeds_13_small.jpg [ 119.56 KiB | Viewed 139 times ]


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