Planting out seedlings

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JohnC
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Planting out seedlings

Post by JohnC »

I live in the pacific northwest and have many seedlings I grew over the winter. I'm wondering if I should be holding them back until they are two years old before I plant outside (i.e. next spring) or if it's generally safe to do it in the first year.

The oldest are 9 months old, the youngest are around 2 months old.

There are Chimonobambusa Yunnanensis, P. Pubescens (moso), Hymalaya Calamus Falconeri and a *lot* of Bambusa Ventricosa.
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needmore
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RE: Planting out seedlings

Post by needmore »

If they are doing well in the containers, I'd leave them. I have some 20 month old Pl. fortunei seedlings and I will probably container grow them for another 1-2 years, I'm a big believe in container growing until they are plenty large with lots of rhizome, with the exception of species that don't like container life.
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kudzu9
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RE: Planting out seedlings

Post by kudzu9 »

John-
If you have "many" seedlings, I'd suggest you plant at least a few outside. It will be a good experiment. I live in about the same climate (greater Seattle area), and I have had success with growing from seed (Moso) in the spring and setting them out and/or planting them a few months later with no problem.
JohnC
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Re: RE: Planting out seedlings

Post by JohnC »

kudzu9 wrote:John-
If you have "many" seedlings, I'd suggest you plant at least a few outside. It will be a good experiment. I live in about the same climate (greater Seattle area), and I have had success with growing from seed (Moso) in the spring and setting them out and/or planting them a few months later with no problem.
Yes that's probably the best plan, I'm out of space to start anything else indoors so it will probably be more than a few. I just wasn't sure if it's certain death the first year or not.

I'm a bit mystified with the timing: I've grown some of them since last fall indoors the longest growing moso's have 3 culms, two baby ones and a slightly larger new one which is still only about double the thickness of the two original culms. Some of the other types have put up a second culm but they are really small still.

What I'm wondering is if any will grown more culms in the spring this year outdoors or do seedlings just get a couple of micro culms the first year then really start growing the second year.
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rfgpitt
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RE: Planting out seedlings

Post by rfgpitt »

JohnC,
As far as I've seen, seedlings will continue to put up more and larger culms as long as the environment permits. Once they get a little size, then shooting will start to become more predictable.
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needmore
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RE: Planting out seedlings

Post by needmore »

A consideration about planting them out is that as youngsters you don't know yet if they will exhibit any unique tendencies, and in ground they are much more vulnerable to predation etc. Then again, the ones that survive in ground will certainly be strong!
Brad Salmon, zone 12B Kea'au, HI
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JohnC
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RE: Planting out seedlings

Post by JohnC »

Thank you guys, I'll keep the unusual ones back in pots and some others for safety and plant half of them this spring after I harden them off.

Cheers!
kudzu9
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RE: Planting out seedlings

Post by kudzu9 »

You will get micro culms at first regardless of what you do. My main view on planting out bamboo is to remember what happens in nature with bamboo seeds: they fall to the ground and germinate and the strong ones survive without the benefit of being in a greenhouse or getting any other special treatment.
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needmore
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Re: RE: Planting out seedlings

Post by needmore »

kudzu9 wrote:You will get micro culms at first regardless of what you do. My main view on planting out bamboo is to remember what happens in nature with bamboo seeds: they fall to the ground and germinate and the strong ones survive without the benefit of being in a greenhouse or getting any other special treatment.
Ah yes, but then we wouldn't have the weak cultivar forms of unusual leaf variegation such as the Akebonos/White Dragons/Richard Haubrichs :wink:

How are things Kudzu? I am still container growing the Vivax Black Spot, and Quadrangularis, just planted out the Castillonis (very unhappy in the pot - my fault) and the Allgold, and even the Fortis that UPS slaughtered grew back enough to plant out! I'd be curious to hear about your Harbin Inversa, mine continues to amaze me, it appears to be equally hardy & vigorous as Bissetii, and may provide a fast yellow screening option. One of my easiest to propagate bamboo much to the contrary of what Whittaker reports in the UK. How does it like the PNW?
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Devaughn
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Re: Planting out seedlings

Post by Devaughn »

JohnC wrote:I live in the pacific northwest and have many seedlings I grew over the winter. I'm wondering if I should be holding them back until they are two years old before I plant outside (i.e. next spring) or if it's generally safe to do it in the first year.

The oldest are 9 months old, the youngest are around 2 months old.

There are Chimonobambusa Yunnanensis, P. Pubescens (moso), Hymalaya Calamus Falconeri and a *lot* of Bambusa Ventricosa.
John, I was wondering where you got your seeds from for the Chimonobambusa Yunnanensis? I Cant locate any for sale, other than seeds from a source that I question the validity and viability of. I would much prefer being able to buy an established shoot although locating one seems near impossible at the moment. I understand obtaining seeds is difficult since they rarely produce them however, I am just getting started so looking mostly for information at the moment. Thanks.
JohnC
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Re: Planting out seedlings

Post by JohnC »

Devaughn wrote:
JohnC wrote:I live in the pacific northwest and have many seedlings I grew over the winter. I'm wondering if I should be holding them back until they are two years old before I plant outside (i.e. next spring) or if it's generally safe to do it in the first year.

The oldest are 9 months old, the youngest are around 2 months old.

There are Chimonobambusa Yunnanensis, P. Pubescens (moso), Hymalaya Calamus Falconeri and a *lot* of Bambusa Ventricosa.
John, I was wondering where you got your seeds from for the Chimonobambusa Yunnanensis? I Cant locate any for sale, other than seeds from a source that I question the validity and viability of. I would much prefer being able to buy an established shoot although locating one seems near impossible at the moment. I understand obtaining seeds is difficult since they rarely produce them however, I am just getting started so looking mostly for information at the moment. Thanks.

I got all my seeds from here: http://www.exotic-plants.de/seeds/bambo ... nensis.php Though I bought mine through Ebay with that same seller but I think it's all the same. None of those seeds turned into giant sized bamboo plants today, in fact they all died by the second winter but it was entirely my own lack of experience and neglect. They germinated great, grew into seedlings, then 1 to 2 foot high plants, were a pain in the butt for months indoors as they grew out of control in trays and when I planted them out I think I just expected them to thrive with little or no attention.

I put them in bad places with too little light, didn't water enough, over mulched with too small a sized mulch which turned to a concrete pad basically blocking almost all water from getting to them, too much shade from trees etc. (Don't believe for a second the reports that some bamboo don't like sun, unless you live in some extremely sunny and hot place it's just a non-factor here in the PNW from my experience)

If I did it over I would still be forced to start them whenever I got them since bamboo seeds reportedly don't germinate well the older they get, but I'd be far more careful with them outdoors, probably keep some in pots, some in the ground and keep attentive with them.

I think I recall the reason they are able to offer seeds consistently is because they have found techniques to trigger seeding like fire and smoke or something along those lines. That's the reason you can get seeds regularly. As to being certain what actual type they are, there's really no guarantees I guess but for certain my seedlings grew into recognizable different types that matched what I read. For example the pubescens had hairy joints just like you would expect etc.

This was all some time ago and I haven't tried again so I can't attest to the seller these days but if I had time I would for certain, it's just fun to do.

Good luck!
Tarzanus
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Re: Planting out seedlings

Post by Tarzanus »

JohnC, some bamboos are capable of sporadic flowering. That's where all those Moso seedlings come from. Not sure about all the fargesias that were later labeled as Borindas - there are many seeds each year that will give almost if not identical plants Fargesia gaolinensis, Fargesia fungosa, Fargesia songmingensis and Fargesia yunnanensis. It seems that they all belong to Fargesia gaolinensis.

Anyone has any information about stress induced flowering (fire / smoke exposure) and viability of seeds?
Arkansas
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Re: Planting out seedlings

Post by Arkansas »

I'll share my experiences, but after testing both methods i now favor keeping in pots for 3 or more years. I think the water pots get is the big factor.

I've tested tiny seedlings by cutting the bottom out of gallon water jugs and burying half the jug in he ground over the tiny seedling and then leave the cap off in the summer. Actually this can work great and you might test some this way. I've used everything from 16 ounce water bottles to large grape juice bottles. Avoid the clear bottles as they get too hot. The white plastic gallon water jugs are a good choice, but they get brittle and break about a year or 2 out. That first year, if you set out in the fall, you'll have room to put the cap on near first frost. Be sure to drill a small air hole in caps or jug will float out of the ground if you get a big enough downpour to have several inches of standing water.

With that method you will lose a few the following summer when the plant gets 2 foot tall or so and a deer or a dog comes along and bends the cane over and the rim of the jug acts as a knife, but won't happen much. I probably had a 90% success rate.

Most remarkable experience along this line I've had was with Mulberry tree seedlings. Can't draw much connection between Mulberry and Bamboo, but it's a neat story anyways. In the late fall of 2012, i order 50 of the bare root tiny one year mulberry tree seedlings from Musser Forest. They range from 8 inches to 24 inches and from 1/8" diameter to pencil size diameter. I then take a dozen of the biggest best looking specimens and plant them out in the ground. And the first summer 2013, we had an uncommonly wet summer. This summer, 2014 is mostly spent and the grass hasn't gotten brown a time. A week from September 2014 and green as can be.

The dozen i set out in back are all still alive and you can barely tell they have up-sized a wee bit. I put the smaller ones in containers and poured the water to them. They were in an unheated greenhouse. The ones in containers all look great about half are now diameter of a broomstick and 5 foot tall.
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Re: Planting out seedlings

Post by Tarzanus »

Mulberry trees in pots are soon going to get root bound. With deformed roots they won't be able to get going when they actually get to see the ground. Usually trees can have first year off to establish the roots. When they do, they start growing faster that any container would allow them to.

Jug trick seems interesting, I'll try it.
Arkansas
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Re: Planting out seedlings

Post by Arkansas »

Tarzanus wrote:Mulberry trees in pots are soon going to get root bound. With deformed roots they won't be able to get going when they actually get to see the ground. Usually trees can have first year off to establish the roots. When they do, they start growing faster that any container would allow them to.
Thanks for the tip. I'll put a few in the ground this fall and look at root balls. Might have to put them all in. Best ones are in 5 gal containers now.

Most of my jug experience was in wooded area, i could tell the ones in full sun, seen a little leaf curl from the heat in summer. Most times, i could put water in the jug and since half or more was above ground, it acted as a nice water reservoir.
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