I see at least two species, and maybe three. I think the largest culms are vivax- thin walled, segments alternating slightly offset from center line, stress fracture at base of culm, lower segments smaller in diameter than lower mid-culm segments, distinct white band. The gray culms are almost certainly henon, which matches one of your shoot pics on Shutterfly.

I don't see any dulcis. The sheath blades are all wrong for dulcis. Dulcis does not grow anywhere near 50'- 2.5" culms around 20' here. Dulcis culms don't grow as straight as those in the photos.

Top of what turned out to be 2.5" X ~20' dulcis culm.


I have never seen a timber bamboo shoot that matches the shoot with the wine/ purple sheath blades, so it is unknown to me. I do like it! I'd like to have a start when you have an extra bit.

Interesting but confusing grove!

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David Arnold
Middle Tennessee Bamboo Farm
USDA zone 6b/7a

I like the henon & vivax idea, that explains the grey culms and the thin walled ones as you said David, the vivax is providing the tall culms and those are not related to some of the shoots in the photos? Perhaps there are several species in the grove and the shoot photos can be considered based on their appearance and not the 50', large diameter, grey, thin walled culms.

So David, you don't see dulcis at all in any of the photos?

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Brad Salmon, zone 5b/6 Southern Indiana
Winters -20 to -25C. Summers 30 to 35C , humid. 115 cm annual precipitation, frost free from May through early October. 259.3 meters elevation. Growing 150+ species. http://www.needmorebamboo.com/

Thanks guys, What I was seeing as younger and older culms could certainly be more than one species.

David, absolutely on a division, however the division I have suffered terribly in the recent freeze. May be some time for recovery, but it does seem to spread out good and will be easy to steal some from an edge. I think a proper division would take off relatively fast. If you remember my piece started out as basically just rhizome.

Jeff: Igor's Apprentice is close and has had previous contact. I really hope he can get back up there. He might be able to see or get a photo of something I missed.

Matt

Matt- Thanks. Next year or later on the division will be fine, let it recover and size up some. Do your shoots have the purple sheath blades?

Brad and All - A couple of the culms on Shutterfly look somewhat like Dulcis, but then I look at the mostly straight, really long, purple sheath blades, and I think no way is this dulcis. The oral setae are similar, as are the auricles and convoluted lingual,and sheath color, but the sheath blades are not similar.

I just don't know what it is. Could Biltmore have imported it prior to bamboo importation restrictions, and P.I. numbers? Is it even listed as being in the US? Could it be a mutation of dulcis?

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David Arnold
Middle Tennessee Bamboo Farm
USDA zone 6b/7a

Yeah David, I think mine showed a hint of that color. The difference being, mine are in full sun and the shoots that had all that nice purple and wine were deep in the shade of the grove in Asheville. Here is a shot of one of mine before the freeze of 2012 She had lost most of the shoots on the outside edges where they weren't protected, so I didn't get any shots of the Asheville shoots in sun exposure.

In this one the small hairs look purple.

This one has some of the blueish in the center, but I think the light on the shoot and during the photo have it washed out.


Someone made a presentation last year during the festival on "The bamboo at Biltmore" but I missed it, wish I could do that over

Matt

Just for yucks, can we eliminate viridiglaucescens for the shoot photo? I just saw a shoot photo of one that had the purple blades, spotted sheaths, fimbriae, and auricles just like the photo. Other photos of it look different, also noticed today that my dulcis looks different than David's, not a lot but the sheaths are different and there is some purple stripes on some of the blade tips but not to the extreme of these in Matt' photo.

_________________
Brad Salmon, zone 5b/6 Southern Indiana
Winters -20 to -25C. Summers 30 to 35C , humid. 115 cm annual precipitation, frost free from May through early October. 259.3 meters elevation. Growing 150+ species. http://www.needmorebamboo.com/

Viridiglaucescens would be an excellent candidate and would make sense if this were a bamboo from the Biltmore. Viridiglaucescens came to the US in 1937, and I understand some of Biltmore's gardens are modeled after gardens in Europe. Viridiglaucescens was very common in Europe and had been there for 90 years, so it could be.

I found this excellent collection of viridiglaucescens photos from France. http://www.anikowa.com/album-1409964.html

Also here even better. http://www.anikowa.com/categorie-10989378.html

I think you may be right on the money Brad.

Matt, it looks like you do have the purple sheath blades. Sun exposure and age could account for the differences in blade color.

_________________
David Arnold
Middle Tennessee Bamboo Farm
USDA zone 6b/7a

David and Brad, You guys are "the man".
I can't read the words. But see if this looks familiar http://www.botanik.univie.ac.at/hbv/index.php?nav=pm005

I'm off to my books!

Matt

Matt, I edited in a second link that is even better than the first. Same garden, but as a home page.

Brad's the man, I just jumped on the wagon.

_________________
David Arnold
Middle Tennessee Bamboo Farm
USDA zone 6b/7a

I'm Sold. Looks like I have another one that isn't pronounceable in East Tennessee

Whitaker says "common in many older gardens with Victorian plant collections." Perfect tie to Biltmore!

Whitaker also talks about the sheath coloring being "streaked green and spotted with brown or dark violet." And he talks about the importance of the sheath coloring in identification due to "culm structure is similar to other green bamboos."

Thanks .. Matt

So, the conclusion is Henon, vivax and viridiglaucescens?

Hi Jeff,
Some of what I learned from all this is.
1, At times and from certain distances Viridiglaucescens shoots look a lot like vivax shoots.
2, At different stages and exposures Viridiglaucescens culms can easily be confused with Henon and dulcis.
3, Vivax shoots don't have oral seta or auricles. And like dulcis Vivax has crinkled culm sheath leaf blades.
4, Dulcis has auricles and oral seta.
5,Viridiglaucescens has relatively big auricles and oral seta that can be colorful.
6,Viridiglaucescens sheath blades can be colorful (purple, blue, purplish green) in shade. And the sheath blades can be crinkled a little early but relax to long graceful curves fairly fast.
7, Always take a camera when going to get a new bamboo.

I hope I got all that correct?


One thing I failed to look at or photograph was the underside of the leaves. Whitaker says they are "faintly hairy and are markedly blue-green on the underside". If you go there would you check that? Are you thinking about trying to get a proper division from her now that we know what it is? I saw some near the street that probably would be small enough to be manageable, if they don't destroy them. Depending on how mine recovers from the freeze I may like to have another piece.

David, your list shows Viridiglaucescens in the ground. Are you still interested in a division?

Not knowing what this one was has bothered me for 2 years, I really appreciate the help.
Matt

I still think it is a mix that includes henon & vivax, not just viridiglaucescens!

_________________
Brad Salmon, zone 5b/6 Southern Indiana
Winters -20 to -25C. Summers 30 to 35C , humid. 115 cm annual precipitation, frost free from May through early October. 259.3 meters elevation. Growing 150+ species. http://www.needmorebamboo.com/

In that case, I'll probably skip trying to get another division from her. Its really hard to get a good division from such a large grove any way. And, I kind of like to know what I'm getting. Futhermore, I don't have a lot of room for more bamboos anyway, particularly if my parvifolia performs up to expectation.

Its really neat that someone has a mixed grove like that though. I've always wondered how different bamboos might work together. And its a good hedge against flowering.

This spring my nuda has really wowed me with how beautiful the dark new culms are and I'm now thinking about planting a big aureosulcata aureocaulis inside of the nuda grove for some serious contrast. Rubro and aureocaulis look nice together, I already have them mixing.

I think if you are careful you might be able to selectively dig the species you want - but then again I've not seen this grove, just cull the shoots on what you don't want as they'd come up if you get mixed rhizomes.

_________________
Brad Salmon, zone 5b/6 Southern Indiana
Winters -20 to -25C. Summers 30 to 35C , humid. 115 cm annual precipitation, frost free from May through early October. 259.3 meters elevation. Growing 150+ species. http://www.needmorebamboo.com/