I have a lot Phylostachys species. I observe the shooting and growth habits closely. My P bissette, P duclcius, and P decora have shoots and growing habits, in my envirornment, are nearly indistinguishable from each other. Have bissette from at least two sources. The other two are only from a well known New England supplyer.

One point is that a lot of these species are probable closely related, and another is , how do we know if we are being sold a distinct species? Have had all of these for long enough for them to develop to semi mature form. ie many culms around 1 in in diameter. I guess we will know when they flower. Thought I'd put this out for discussion. Any difinetive I D tips welcome.

Yes there are several ways to tell them apart. First Dulcis shoots usually have blotches of black on them and look rounder. The culms are usually a little fatter and don't grow leaves for several nodes. Dulcis also is a slower shoot producer than the other 2, but upsizes faster, probably a bit less cold hardy.

Decora usually has very colorful shoots. and grows very close together like bissetii. Along with bissetii , decora has fairly long internodes. Bissetii makes almost white shoots with some striping.

I still think Dulcis is better than both of them because of a fatter culm and overall form.

2 bamboos I think look almost identical, but still not mature form yet is P parvifolia, and P aerosulcata. The only difference between the 2 which sets them apart easily is the color of the new shoots.

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Well, the node length is similar on the three types. and new shoot's culm sheath's are very similar.
The only difference I have documented is that the Bissete takes the cold snaps better. I suppose it is possible I was sold incorrectly identified plants. I bought more than one specimen of all plants, so if there was a mix up, it may have been intentional.
I am sure of the bissete because I have 3 sources for the stands I have, and they are all the most cold hardy of the phypostachys. The blotches you mention for dulcius sound similar to nuda and vivax, both of which I have and are well documented. Perhaps things will become more clear as the stands mature.
Guess I could taste the shoots.

The culm leaves on these three here at my place/environmental conditions are quite distinct and would not be mistaken for one another. Beyond that the Dulcis has shorter branches but longer leaves and I think is easy to ID based on top growth. Bissetii, on new culms has lots of white powder 'buildup' in spots up and down - not an overall coating but more like clumps. Also the shoots look way more like asparagus when elongating that the other 2. The Decora shoots are so showy that only Brachystachyum densiflora and to a lessor extent Phy. humilis look even close to as colorful.

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Brad Salmon, zone 5b/6 Southern Indiana
Winters -20 to -25C. Summers 30 to 35C , humid. 115 cm annual precipitation, frost free from May through early October. 259.3 meters elevation. Growing 150+ species. http://www.needmorebamboo.com/

I agree that many bamboos appear to be so similar that perhaps until they flower, they are almost impossible to tell apart. I have gone back and forth trying to identify differences between two adjacent, similar-sized, green Phyllostachys species, frequently without a lot of success. Eventually in the future perhaps DNA identification will be sufficiently common to be able to be able to correctly place the relationships between the various bamboo species.

At the 2005 ABS National Meeting, Noelle Barkley from the USDA–ARS, Plant Genetic Resources Conservation Unit in Georgia made a presentation “Do Not Be Bamboozled by Bamboo: A Molecular Study of the USDA Temperate Bamboo Collection”. This was based on her and others work on studying the genetic diversity of the USDA temperate bamboo collection at Byron, Georgia that was published in Genome 48: 731–737 (2005). “Assessment of the genetic diversity and phylogenetic relationships of a temperate bamboocollection by using transferred EST-SSR markers” by N.A. Barkley, M.L. Newman, M.L. Wang, M.W. Hotchkiss, and G.A. Pederson. Figure 1 of the article in Genome is a dendrogram of the bamboos at Byron showing their genetic relationship based on the markers used in the study.

In general the taxonomy of the various acquistions appeared to be in agreement, however there were some unexpected results. For example one of their samples of Phyllostachys rubromarginata seemed to be a closer match to one of their samples of Phyllostachys flexuosa. A physical examination of the Phyllostachys rubromarginata indicated it was contaminated by another species, most likely from the plot of Phyllostachys flexuosa that was growing next to it.

A surprise, at least to me, was that in this study their acquisition (PI 143540) of Phyllostachys bissetii appeared to be most closely related to their acquisition (PI 75161) of Arundinaria viridistriata which I presume is now Pleioblastus viridistriata. However, I would discount this relationship without more data. The Phyllostachys bissetii also was related to Phyllostachys vivax and one of their acquisitions (PI 546939) of Phyllostachys aureosulcata ‘Harbin’. Their other four acquisitions of Phyllostachys aureosulcata were in a more distant grouping with Phyllostachys meyeri and Phyllostachys arcana. Also related to Phyllostachys bissetii in this study were Phyllostachys dulcis and Phyllostachys elegans.

Their acquisition (PI 128789) of Phyllostachys mannii (do not know if this was Decora, but probably was not) was most closely related to Phyllostachys aurea and less closely to three different acquisitions of Phyllostachys rubromarginata. I am probably reading too much into Figure 1, but the data is interesting; and indicative that a lot more work needs to be done in this area.

Just from the posts in the past on this website I think it is clear there are a lot misidentified bamboos out there. It is not unusual for people here in Texas to say, when trading bamboo, that I got this as “some species name” rather than it is “some species name.” If you have any doubt about the ID of a bamboo there is a high likelihood you are justified in questioning it. I have several bamboos that are still unidentified, waiting for the new shoots to get larger.

Mike McG near Brenham TX

I think that most of the issue comes from people trading plants, often divisions from juvenile plants, whos characteristics are not yet fully visible. In my plantings of Bisettii, and Ruboro, and Decora, they look very similiar, the shoots slightly different. if you were to look at these plantings, and see that they are small, first year plantings, you would understand. once the plant grows more into a grove, and the overall characteristics become more pronounced, then its easier to tell them apart.

on the genetic studies... its interesting that each plant does not come up exact- for example, you quoted that one bisetii was related to several other forms of bamboo... I would suspect either contamination, collection of the wrong plant (it may have been collected fromt the right area, but another plant may have grown into the wrong area, or that something else it wrong. Interesting that some of the plants collected, of the same species, showed being related to various other plants. if this were true, it leaves the question as to why? contaminated study material, or are there several cultivars of some species floating about? on some of the older species here in the US, I can understand that, but on the newer ones, why would there be more than one? they have to go through such a cumbersome process to get here, It seems strange that more than one person would import the same plant. I wonder how many bamboos here in the USA really have their Green Card......

The work with Bamboo DNA has advanced quite a bit since 2005 and they are finding a number of crosses between species. Also when a bamboo flowers there can be enough diversity between seedlings that people can give them different names.

At the 2009 conference there is a whole day class by Dr. Jimmy Triplett with Dr. Lynn Clark and Amanda Fisher on "advanced field identification of woody bamboos and an overview of current research in bamboo evolution and systematics" they are still working on the presentation but about half of the day will be on bamboo identification and half on the latest DNA testing with enough detail that people should come out with an understanding of how the testing is done and how to analyse the results.

Because of my climate I have a number of bamboos that do not match their parent plants which make identification even harder. It also makes me doubt some of the cultivars out there where the differences could be caused by environment.


Bill

Thanks for that citation...I was able to find it on the web here. It was interesting to see how far away P. edulis was from the rest of the Phyllostachys--several other genera were closer! Made me wonder if any other research has placed Moso far away from the rest of the genus.

I thank you all for the responses on this. Besides people trading in semi -ignorance of what they have is the possible fraud on the part of a few dealers trying to cater to bamboo collectors. If I find out that I was sold pricey specimens of bamboo, the real I D of which could only be determined after growing out these small but expensive specimens.... well, that dealer's reputation will be trashed. Fortunatly . he was not the only supplyer in the building of my collection.

Anyway, I enjoy this time of year , despite the fact I am flat out too busy with my business , because I love to see what is sprouting and what the different stands will do .

I think that most miss IDed bamboos come from two sources, one, private parties, who are not avid collectors, more of the part time hobbiests, and two, which I have seen the most of, are general retail nurseries. I have been to quite a few, and have on numerous occasions seen miss marked bamboo. one locally has aureasulcata marked as moso
I know the owner, he knows me, and he still refused to change the tag, because he was told it was moso when he bought it! dumb.

the other way I have received plants that were miss IDed, were simple honest mistakes from big time growers.... the staff is there to collect a pay check, and if a few things get tipped over, sometimes they end up with the right group, sometimes not.... the best growers tag EVERY pot to make sure this does not happen, but I got my P. a. Aureacaulis that way... was supposed to be buying Spectabilis....

so, like most things in life, there are no guarantees....
I spent a good amount of money from a well known dealer, who gets great reviews, and got pretty much crap, with a couple dead plants so far, and some barely hanging in there, two separate orders, so accidents in shipping cant account for all of it.....

its luck of the draw!