Bambusa odashimae/odashima/edulis/oldhamii

[boonut]

Any ideas related to the debate on bamboo identified as either Bambusa odashimae/odashima/edulis/oldhamii?

I purchased two boo some time ago labeled Bambusa Oldhamii. They do look like Oldhamii other than minor differences in culm growth habit and a little difference in culm size and culm wall thickness. I have two growing next to one that I am confident that it is Bambusa Oldhamii.

The other two grow out... then up. The culm walls are thicker. The culms are probably 80% the size of B. Oldhamii. They are definitely tough culms... very similar to B. tuldoides... but the culm sheaths look like Oldhamii.

This is all just my opinion based on purchasing all three at the same time. They were all about the same size when purchased.

My Bambusa Oldhamii have thinner culm walls and will break in high winds when first shooting above the previous year's growth. I lose about 30% of my culms above the old growth each year. My Oldhamii are putting up 3" culms this year.

[Roy]

Any ideas related to the debate on bamboo identified as either Bambusa odashimae/odashima/edulis/oldhamii?

I purchased two boo some time ago labeled Bambusa Oldhamii. They do look like Oldhamii other than minor differences in culm growth habit and a little difference in culm size and culm wall thickness. I have two growing next to one that I am confident that it is Bambusa Oldhamii.

The other two grow out... then up. The culm walls are thicker. The culms are probably 80% the size of B. Oldhamii. They are definitely tough culms... very similar to B. tuldoides... but the culm sheaths look like Oldhamii.

This is all just my opinion based on purchasing all three at the same time. They were all about the same size when purchased.

My Bambusa Oldhamii have thinner culm walls and will break in high winds when first shooting above the previous year's growth. I lose about 30% of my culms above the old growth each year. My Oldhamii are putting up 3" culms this year.

And do the leaves all look the same? Like oldhamii leaves: somewhat large, but not not large like some of the big leafed dendro's.

And does B. edulis, now called Bambusa odashimae, get to up to 65 feet by 3 inches?

And one of them grows erect? B. oldhamii?

What about the other one? erect or not?

[boonut]

Roy said -

And do the leaves all look the same? Like oldhamii leaves: somewhat large, but not not large like some of the big leafed dendro's. Yes... on mine... they both look the same.

And does B. edulis, now called Bambusa odashimae, get to up to 65 feet by 3 inches? My Oldhamii is only 35 feet by 3 inches... the other one is about 30 feet by 2 inches... not tall enough to tell.

And one of them grows erect? Only the B. Oldhamii grows erect all the way. The other one grows out then straight up. B. oldhamii? Very straight and erect.
[/b]

I guess the reason I posted this is to see what others think. I knew there was a difference... I just didn't know what the thinking was by those more knowledgeable than me. If there is a consensus that that bamboo is now named Bambusa Odashimae, then yippee... I have two. It is definitely NOT B. Tuldoides.

[boonut]

The only other thing I can think of is that the B. Odashimae (if that what we are going to call it) has longer rhizome necks... more space between culms than B. Tuldoides...

I don't have an opinion... just want to know what the consensus is so I know what to call the two I bought in Houston as B. Oldhamii. I purchased them from Maas Nursery about 5 years ago now. I purchased the B. Oldhamii that I think is true from a nursery just north of Corpus Christi.

[Mike McG]

Allen,

I bought a pot of B oldhamii in Houston in 2004 recognizing it might get some damage during the winter, but hopeful that it would survive reasonably well since the B. oldhamii at Zilker in Austin only gets tip damage on the new culms and probably sees similar temperates to us here near Brenham TX (halfway between Houston and Austin).

It spent the winter of 2004/5 from Christmas to Easter in our unheated barn and was undamaged. I then put it in the ground and it was culm killed the past two winters when the temperature got below 20?F. There is no shade where it is planted so it may have gotten much colder due to radiation cooling. I am going to wrap it in burlap next winter. The new shoot this year is perfectly straight but the one from last year had a significant zig-zag to it. I have been wondering for a while if this plant is actually B. odashimea.

There is a whole row of bamboo at Mercer that is planted along the parking lot by the bridge. These plants were purchased as B. oldhamii but it is now thought that some of these plants are actually B. odashimea. There are noticeable differences in the culms, branches and leaf color between them.

My understanding is that some bamboo was bought to CA from Taiwan(?), perhaps in an unauthorized manner, to be used for shoot production and that is the original source of this bamboo in TX. B. odashimea is supposed to be less hardy than B. oldhamii, 25?F vs 21?F, but I do not recall seeing any damage on either of these two bamboo at Mercer, but they are a lot warmer than we are.

Mike near Brenham TX

[Roy]

Below is what Kew Gardens says about Bambusa odashimae. The only problem is that the measurements they give would include a lot of different types of bamboo. Height from 33 to 65 feet and culm diameter from 1.5 to 4.7 inches. What a variation. What good are those measurement? (Hope I did the conversions right.)

http://www.kew.org/data/grasses-db/www/imp01288.htm
Descriptions
W.D. Clayton, K.T. Harman & H. Williamson
? Copyright The Board of Trustees, Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew.

Bambusa odashimae

HABIT Perennial; caespitose. Rhizomes short; pachymorph. Culms erect; 1000?2000 cm long (33 to 65 feet) ; 40?120 mm diam.(1.5 to 4.7 inches); woody; without nodal roots. Culm-internodes terete; thick-walled; 15?50 cm long (5.9 to 19.7 inches); mid-green; distally glabrous. Culm-nodes swollen; pubescent. Lateral branches dendroid. Bud complement 1. Branch complement several; in a clump; thinner than stem. Culm-sheaths deciduous; coriaceous; pubescent; hairy on margins. Culm-sheath ligule 1?5 mm high. Culm-sheath blade triangular; pubescent (at base). Leaves 9?13 per branch. Leaf-sheaths 4.5?15 cm long; glabrous on surface. Leaf-sheath oral hairs setose; dark. Ligule an eciliate membrane; obtuse. Collar with external ligule. Leaf-blade base with a brief petiole-like connection to sheath. Leaf-blades deciduous at the ligule; lanceolate, or oblong; 10?33 cm long; 25?45 mm wide. Leaf-blade venation with 12?20 secondary veins. Leaf-blade surface pubescent; densely hairy; hairy abaxially. Leaf-blade margins scabrous. Leaf-blade apex acuminate.

[victorengel]

After an email discussion locally, it seems like I have B. odashimae rather than B. oldhamii that I thought I had. I decided to go through the descriptions of both from Kew. Since I have them at hand, I thought I'd post them here (just the differences) for posterity.

B. oldhamii
size 1000-1600 cm (30-50 feet)
thin-walled
internodes 17-20 cm long
light green
branch complement 1,2,3
sheaths glabrous
leaf sheaths hirsute
leaf blade lanceolate
leaf blade 5.5 cm, 12mm wide
venation 10-12 secondary veins
leaf blade surface pubescent

B. odashimae
size 1000-2000 cm (30-60 feet)
thick-walled
internodes 15-50 cm long
medium green
branch complement several
sheaths coriaceous, pubescent, hairy on margins, pubescent at base
leaf sheaths glabrous on surface
leaf blade lanceolate or oblong
leaf blade 10-33 cm long, 25-45mm wide
venation 10-20 secondary veins
leaf blade surface pubescent, densely hairy

My plant is only 800cm tall at this point. Otherwise, it checks out as B. odashimae except that the sheaths appear glabrous to me (except for setose margins at the base of the blade), and leaf sheath oral hairs are light-colored, not dark

Seems like the most pronounced differences are internode length and leaf blade size.

[marcat]

You left out Odashimae's habit of having an occasional double node once it sizes up. Kinda of a dead give away when it does that.

MarCat

[Roy]

You left out Odashimae's habit of having an occasional double node once it sizes up. Kinda of a dead give away when it does that.

MarCat

Yes, definitely a dead give away, MarCat. But all this talk, I've read, about it getting up to 60 feet, I've never seen that at all. 35 feet by about 2.25 inches is the most I've ever seen. The leaves of this plant and B. oldhamii look identical to my eyes, but other factors are different. This is the same plant that Dr. Dransfield, Kew Royal Botanical Gardens ID-ed for me, with about a 90 plus percent certainty as B. Cornigera. I sent her pics, culm sheaths. leaves and etc.

I don't care what name the plant is suspected to be, but my question is "Who has a 50 foot specimen of this plant?". I live in sunny and rainy Florida, and I can grow B. oldhamii to 70 feet by 5 inches, but this plant I can grow only about 35 feet by 2.25 inches.

Roy

[marcat]

Hi Roy
They have some large ones at Mercer in Houston and I believe they exceeded 2.25 around 3+. Didn't pay attention to their height. I'll give Outlaw a buzz he may have a good estimate on their height or stop by and look. Mine come from him, possibly two different clones as one was ID'ed as Corniger to start with but didn't have the coloring and he said when it sized up the double nodes showed up. Mine are too small to use for discriptions.
MarCat

[boonut]

Roy, mine are a little smaller than yours... we simply don't get the rains. The double nodes and occasional right or left turn at the double node are things that make this one unique in my opinion. Very nice bamboo... that looks good with lots of water or a little water. I am thinking of dividing some of mine up and making a fence line out it.

One of the best in my area for a fence line is Bambusa Ventricosa "Kimmei". I put one in about 10 years ago and hardly ever watered it. It is very nice now.

[I_am_Ian]

Roy, your Oldhamii gets 70 feet tall? That's huge. Why does it grow so tall? I live in zone 9B in Northern California so I'm wondering how it'll do here.