Getting back into gardening, zone 5

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Rufledt
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Re: Getting back into gardening, zone 5

Post by Rufledt »

After talking with Leo a bit I think I'm going to add atrovaginata to the potential in-ground plant list. I suppose that puts me at spectabilis, bissetii, parvifolia, and atrovaginata in ground which is probably all I'd have room for if I want decent size groves close to the house. If any of them turn out to be underperforming in my microclimate I'll just remove it and expand the others I suppose.

In other good news I emailed bamboo garden and they have a new variant of arundinaria gigantea they got from wisconsin, so it should definitely handle my south-wisconsin winters. It's not ready to sell yet bet eventually I'll get some. They also said my overwintering strategy (pots in a shop warmed to 40f) should really expand the list of plants I can grow in containers, even some tropical ones which is nice. I still use the shop so space is limited, however.
UPBooMatt
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Re: Getting back into gardening, zone 5

Post by UPBooMatt »

Atrovaginata was on my short list but I put rubromarginata instead with my spectabilis and bissetii...I will be very interested in how an atro does for you if you do end planting one. I've read some things since making my choice that have gotten my wheels turning for a place to stick one...lol

I sometimes wish I had heated garage space to overwinter plants in, but then I remember I have enough that come in for the winter already, and I look forward to lack of garden maintenance that time of year.

40F is perfect...anything above freezing but Sub ~50. Little light, lititle water, and they should be quite content to ride out the winter.
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Re: Getting back into gardening, zone 5

Post by needmore »

If space is tight keep in mind that parvifolia & atrovaginata are quite similar in appearance and performance.
Brad Salmon, zone 12B Kea'au, HI
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UPBooMatt
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Re: Getting back into gardening, zone 5

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I'm curious Brad, if that means the weeping/45* angled shooting habit as well? I may have to cancel or at least rethink my plans to make abother 3 sided barrier along my fence for some atro next yeat if so. I was under the impression atrovaginata was a fairly straight/upright grower? Or do they both tend towards that as juvenile plantings? That's why parvifolia never made it onto my lists...my yard just isn't wide enough, I don't want to be training any more culms upright than necessary, and my bamboos may just be stuck in a perpetual juvenile state in this climate. Rubro should still grow straight and upright, even if it can't "mature" here.
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Re: Getting back into gardening, zone 5

Post by needmore »

That is one difference, the Atrovaginata will not do the angled lean that Parvifolia does when young, mine stopped that in about year 2-3 so don't worry too much about it.
Brad Salmon, zone 12B Kea'au, HI
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Rufledt
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Re: Getting back into gardening, zone 5

Post by Rufledt »

Good point Brad, I hadn't considered that. I'd rather give parvifolia (or something unique) a bit more space rather than double up, at least until I see how parvifolia handles the winter. I'm pretty sure spectabilis and bissetii will be fine, not sure about parvifolia, but even those 2 in the ground would be fine. I'm probably going to focus on fargesias and ground cover plants anyway.

Planters though, I have big plans for planters, soil, and fertilizer.
UPBooMatt
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Re: Getting back into gardening, zone 5

Post by UPBooMatt »

needmore wrote:That is one difference, the Atrovaginata will not do the angled lean that Parvifolia does when young, mine stopped that in about year 2-3 so don't worry too much about it.
Glad to hear that. And I'm sure I could deal with the parvifolia, but I've seen some pics of them that would be just insane growing in my back yard. Ive not actuallly measured, but i think its about 15 feet from house to house, not including the ~16" my fence takes up.

I've also not seen/read anything clearly separating them in terms of hardiness. I have read sources claiming each one is hardier than the other though...lol. So for now atrovaginata is currently top of my short list I think.

Either way, Rufledt, I'll be curious to see how a parvifolia does for you since it would surely be on the list of most northerly growing ones...lol
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Re: Getting back into gardening, zone 5

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I do wonder if annual topkill will keep it angled and I think that w/o serious protection that is what you both will have.
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Re: Getting back into gardening, zone 5

Post by UPBooMatt »

That was where my thought process ended up on parvi...perpetually in a juvenile state...could make an interesting jungle gym I suppose...lol
Rufledt
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Re: Getting back into gardening, zone 5

Post by Rufledt »

Even a shrub sized parvifolia would be a good conversation piece. "See this shrubbery? Under the right conditions it could become a forest in only a few years!"

Then people would wonder what kind of "shrubbery" you have been smoking :lol:
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Re: Getting back into gardening, zone 5

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OK like I said plants are probably going in the ground in spring, I'll use fall to prepare. This weekend and next week are forecast for rain, no prep happening then, but I'm going to prep for my container plans. Here's the plan. For soil i'm going to mix some garden/potting soil I have with some coconut coir, this kind of stuff:
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It comes as a brick, adding water expands it. I've used it in the past and it really adds an organic texture to soil, makes it easier for roots to grow, and holds a bit more moisture and air in. In my experience, soil can develop dry spots that are hard to dampen once they dry, but soil with a good amount of this in there doesn't have that problem. Water diffuses easily through all of it.

The downside, it isn't very nutritious. When i've tried growing tomatoes in it before, they took off like a rocket and then slammed into a wall. I later discovered it was nutrient deficiency related. The first time i did container gardening, the cure was the following mix of fertilizers:
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The neptune's harvest is 2-3-1, but supposedly high in micronutrients, whatever that is, and the singles are like 24-8-16 I think, according to the walmart website. I'm probably not going to do that this time. I did that because, in my mind, 2-3-1 isn't very strong, and i wanted the extra n-p-k kick from the miracle grow. I was new to gardening at the time. I also didn't read the instructions on the neptune's harvest bottle, and it would seem the reason I wasn't getting the results I wanted (in addition to expecting it to work miracles overnight) was because i was drastically under fertilizing with it. like, 1/8 the amount I should have been using.

My plan this time is to use the neptune's harvest as directed, maybe with occasional use of a grass fertilizer. The pots will also be supplemented with compost from leaves and grass.

If this doesn't work out, the coconut coir i don't use will just be dumped in the garden. I need lots of it, the soil is all clay anyway, and I don't generate enough compost around here to fix it very quickly.

I ordered a few plants from Bamboo Garden to test this out this winter. A few phyllostachys, but i'm not worried about those. I also ordered a Sasamorpha borealis. I heard long ago (from Brad I think) that it isn't particularly happy in a pot, but it's pretty hardy. All 1 gallon sizes. I figure if none of them die, i'm onto something. I haven't managed to kill the harbin doing this, but that actually has quite a root structure, not a great test in my opinion. The spectabilis does great, but i feel like that is nearly invincible.

The reason I ordered the borealis is because while in South Korea once (wife's family is Korean, we were visiting them) we had some tea made from it. I guess there's some research about borealis (usually called Sasa borealis there for some reason) tea leaves or something in them treating some medical problems or whatever. I didn't read the full medical articles as they were way over my head and sometimes in Korean, but the tea was pretty darn good. I wouldn't mind having an unlimited supply!

The other ones I got were Nigra, Henon, and Vivax "huangwenzhu". I saw tons of nigra and henon all over S. Korea when I was there, nigra in palaces and forests of henon all over in the south west. I bought a flute (a danso) made of nigra, and I have reason to believe one of the primary korean instruments (called a daegeum) is made from henon. I can't back that up for sure with facts, but it sure seems like it from the documentaries I watched about it. They also said they use henon for lots of other crafts and also construction. Also they look cool. I've heard Vivax gets pretty impressive in a pot, and my wife liked huangwenzhu the most. So there's my reasoning. No interesting botany related reasons, just I want to make stuff from these ones and my wife thinks they're pretty. Of course in pots they probably won't get flute-sized, but they will look nice anyway.

Still unsure if i plan on clay pots of plastic with ample drainage. I'm using plastic pots with big drainage holes for the other bamboos and have for the last few years. They don't seem to get waterlogged or dry, so that's nice, and carrying plastic pots is a lot easier than heavy heavy clay pots. I may also make cedar planters, since i can move them with a big dolly.

Thoughts on my plan? Worth a shot? too complicated? trying something that has failed before?

Anyone know if sasamorpha borealis needs a hibernation period? Probably won't like being indoors, just curious. I've never had issue with indoor bamboos, but I stuck to bambusa multiplex and japonica, never tried anything else inside.
UPBooMatt
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Re: Getting back into gardening, zone 5

Post by UPBooMatt »

First, I'd steer away from clay, or anything solid and heavy...lol. Plastic, and wood will have some give and or allow disassembly when dividing/transplanting. I've never done, but all I've read says getting a bamboo out of rigid, and certainly narrow at the top, container is all but impossible without destroying the pot or the plant. Granted you might be able to split it up and remove the divisions, but imagining trying to cut through all that rhizome mass from the top sounds like no fun!

On the Sasamorpha dormancy period, I dont know for certain, but I would assume it would benefit from a cool period. I think most of the Sasa's come from areas that have cooler temps in winter and I suspect that's why my Sasa veitchii that spent winter indoors last year didn't do much of anything this year...yet at least, I think they can fall shoot sometimes, so maybe it will yet.

And for future reference, it's only been one winter so far but being from a colder zone like me this may be useful to you. I've had indoors so far over-winter in normal, living space, conditions with supplemental florescent lighting the following species with no obvious I'll effects other than noted, yet:

Pseudosasa japonica - dry leaf tips, but shoots on and off all winter and a flush in march/april, seems completely unfazed
Hibanobambusa tranquilans Shiroshima - very narrow weak leaves in artifical lighting, but nice flush of shoots in may/June and new leaves normal
Pleioblastus viridistriatus - unfazed, always seems to be shooting...lol

Sasa veitchii - no activity all winter, one tiny 4" tall shoot in April, another the same size in August...not happy plant overall

It could be my culture, or something else, but I grow all my bamboo the same, and it's my saddest plant by far.

Will be trying Pleioblastus distichus, and Chimonobambusa quadrangularis "Suow" inside this year, but I plan on trying to expose everything to a bit more cool weather than last year to see if that helps.
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Re: Getting back into gardening, zone 5

Post by Rufledt »

Thanks for the info! I don't think anything likes my clay soil haha but this coir stuff is definitely something else. It showed up today:
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it comes as a big brick, I think this was 10 lbs of the stuff. Add water and it starts expanding rapidly:
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filling it all with water expanded it to almost 2 bins full:
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It took a LOT of water, and yet there is none pooling in the bottom. This stuff holds a LOT of water. I probably put too much in, and yet it doesn't feel soggy, just heavier but still airy. Really cool stuff. If only it had lots of nutrients in it, this might be the perfect soil. I've heard of people combining this 50/50 with potting/garden soil, which is probably what i'm going to try. Plants aren't here yet, I don't think they ship until beginning of the week, but I have the dirt, the pots, the fertilizer, and now the coir ready. Going to take it easy on the fertilizer at first, but being a lower NPK it shouldn't be as much of a plant shock, right? It's a concentrate so I'll probably mix it a bit thinner until the plants get settled.
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Re: Getting back into gardening, zone 5

Post by needmore »

I remembered another difference between the two, Parvifolia is hard to keep green. The leaves easily fade and it needs lots of food, I seem to recall David in TN hits his with lots of Ironite. Mine is faded now and that is why I remembered.
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Rufledt
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Re: Getting back into gardening, zone 5

Post by Rufledt »

That's interesting, about a month ago I noticed one of the culms on my parvifolia has lighter green leaves than the other ones. I'll have to try some Ironite and see what happens.
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