Zone 6 bamboo

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Cichlidius
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Location: Cleveland

Re: Zone 6 bamboo

Post by Cichlidius »

I was reading that yesterday, I just wish the person stated where they are located. He/she uses the metric system so I can only assume Canada. Maybe Northwest? Fairly mild winters there. How did your parvifolia do? What is your soil like? I have awful heavy clay soil, always been an issue keeping it moist. I'll have water just sit on the ground, not penetrating at all, sun come out and bakes the soil until it cracks. Terrible.
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needmore
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Re: Zone 6 bamboo

Post by needmore »

If that person is who I think that person is, they live about an hour south of Indianapolis and winters are not very mild...
Brad Salmon, zone 12B Kea'au, HI
http://www.needmorebamboo.com
Mackel in DFW
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Location: Dallas, Texas (zone 8)

Re: Zone 6 bamboo

Post by Mackel in DFW »

Cichildius-

Once your clay contains enough organic matter in it, it will become the most magical soil on earth. Drainage will increase, along with fertility/biological activity. No need to "fear the clay". This means up to 10 percent by weight or up to 30 percent by volume of organic material in ratio to the mineral material in the top foot of soil.

This is accomplished with compost and mulch. You can top dress it, and the material will work it's way down with rainfall, and earthworm/beetle activity, or till it in at a foot depth for instantaneous results. Clay holds water and nutrients very well once it reaches this condition, and can be watered very deeply and infrequently. Avoid compacting it when it is wet. Trust me, my Brother.

Mackel
Cichlidius
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Location: Cleveland

Re: Zone 6 bamboo

Post by Cichlidius »

Thanks for all the help, I really appreciate it.
Leo S
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Location: NE Illinois, zone 5, USA

Re: Zone 6 bamboo

Post by Leo S »

You know, for the Cleveland area a lot depends on where you live, if you are east of Cleveland and within 15 miles of Lake Erie, you are in the snow belt, and due to heavy snow cover, can grow zone 6 plants no problem, if you are west of Cleveland, or are south and away from the 'snow belt' you really should look for species that are zone 5b hardy.

If I were you I would get Phyllo atrovaginata for green culms, it sizes up nice enough, as long as you don't need anything over 20 feet, you will be happy with it. Side by side with aureosulcata culms of atrovaginata are slightly larger in diameter at the same size. The list you proposed in your last post won't work away from the snow belt. Those bamboos are not hardy enough.

For golden yellow culms, that really stand out from a distance, I would plant Phyllo. aureosulcata 'Aureocaulis'. It is lovely, very hardy and under-utilized. P. aureosulcata 'Spectabilis' is also nice, but the green stripes are not very visible at a distance, at a distance it looks slightly muted compared to aureocaulis. I also like 'Harbin Inversa' for the same uses I like 'Spectabilis'. Spectabilis and Harbin Inversa are superb where they can be enjoyed close up.

Dulcis, decora, rubromarginata and other zone 6 bamboos might be good only if you lived in the warmest parts of the eastern snow belt. They won't do well in the dry winters west and south of Cleveland.

As far as Phyllo parvifolia goes, I know a lot of guys here are super excited about it, supposedly a hardier version of Moso. Problem is, it is so new, it really doesn't have a track record. In the hands of those providing extra protection, it has done well. I don't provide a lot of extra protection in winter. My one year old from a 3 gallon purchased in spring of 2013 did not survive the winter. Total top kill and as of June 14 no new shoots. I'm assuming it is dead. If you were to ask me, I would say it is not very hardy. But I am a sample size of one, just as the others working with it are. It will take time before a consensus is reached as to its hardiness. Another issue with parvifolia is that it is talked about as being similar to Moso. In many ways Moso is a problem species. It is notoriously slow to size up. So far I have not hear of anyone north of Saint Louis with parvifolia taller than 20 feet. It may take quite a few years before we know just how well parvifolia will size up in the north. So while everyone is excited about it (rightly so) it still is not a "proven performer", and I am skeptical as to just how hardy and just how big it will get. So far I am out the $$ for the first bucket of parvifolia. I may give it another try, but it is not top on my list for hardy bamboo.

I have many shoots on atrovaginata, and aureosulcata, those guys have proven track records for hardiness. My original planting of the normal form of aureosulcata experienced -25 its second winter, this was in the cold snap that happened 30 years ago. It came up smaller, but it did survive. I never had to order another pot of it. Full size for me is 18 feet. Taller than my gutters on my house by a couple feet.

Tops on the proven hardiness lists are atrovaginata, aureosulcata (all 6 or 7 color forms) bissettii, and nuda. These are the top proven cold tolerant Phyllostachys. Propinqua 'Beijing' and others may be close, but not quite as hardy.

P. nuda is interesting, it is the darkest green of the top proven hardy list. It almost looks blue-green. An interesting point if you are planning a color scheme. At a distance you could see blue(ish) from a clump of nuda, vivid medium green from atrovaginata, and a nice bright yellow from aureosulcata var aureocaulis. Just a thought. Nuda does suffer more from wind damage, which is why it is not super popular right now, but I think we should not forget about using it.

Hope this helps.
Nicholas
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Re: Zone 6 bamboo

Post by Nicholas »

Leo S wrote: As far as Phyllo parvifolia goes, I know a lot of guys here are super excited about it, supposedly a hardier version of Moso. Problem is, it is so new, it really doesn't have a track record. In the hands of those providing extra protection, it has done well. I don't provide a lot of extra protection in winter. My one year old from a 3 gallon purchased in spring of 2013 did not survive the winter. Total top kill and as of June 14 no new shoots. I'm assuming it is dead. If you were to ask me, I would say it is not very hardy. But I am a sample size of one, just as the others working with it are. It will take time before a consensus is reached as to its hardiness. Another issue with parvifolia is that it is talked about as being similar to Moso. In many ways Moso is a problem species. It is notoriously slow to size up. So far I have not hear of anyone north of Saint Louis with parvifolia taller than 20 feet. It may take quite a few years before we know just how well parvifolia will size up in the north. So while everyone is excited about it (rightly so) it still is not a "proven performer", and I am skeptical as to just how hardy and just how big it will get. So far I am out the $$ for the first bucket of parvifolia. I may give it another try, but it is not top on my list for hardy bamboo.
I'll try and clarify a few things about parvifolia though I'm far from being an expert and this is mostly a summary of what I've encountered on the internet.

There was some excitement about parvifolia producing thick culms in cold climates and having smallish leaves which is why it had been called moso of the north (actually I think that term should be used for Kwangsiensis, another pubescent form of phyllostachys that gets reasonably thick culms and is hardier than edulis)

Jos van der Palen has a great specimen (here is a link to bamboogarden description : http://www.bamboogarden.com/Phyllostach ... ifolia.htm ) and I believe this is where a lot of the excitement comes from. His planting is old and has shown to be quite cold resistant. The last two winters here in Austria were exceptionally mild so I can't comment at all on hardiness. What happened however is that during the first winter my plant threw up a shoot in fall and it was only half developed, yet it didn't freeze off at a low of around -15 celsius and continued to grow in spring.

So far I haven't encountered many people complaining about parvifolia's hardiness but rather about the angled shoots it puts up as a smaller plant.
Your concerns about the plant being slow to upsize are related to the cold conditions. Moso does put on quite a bit of size in good climates. I certainly can't complain about the upsizing on my parvifolia after two years. The thing is that with aureosulcata, bissettii or nuda or many other hardy varieties there is, even under perfect conditions, a limit to what the plant will achieve size wise. You are not going to see 3+ inch culms on nuda even under good conditions. With Parvifolia at least you know it is possible.

Atrovaginata is very similar to Parvifolia and a bit more common. It has shown to produce quite thick culms even in colder climates. The reason people are experimenting with parvifolia is that there is a very good chance that it will perform similarly if not better than Atrovaginata in the long run.

I don't want to say that Parvifolia is better than the bamboos you mentioned. Its just that with those smaller varieties you KNOW that they are no timber bamboos.
If you want to achieve a timber bamboo look you need to choose timber bamboos. Out of the available options such as Vivax, Henon, Shanghai 3, dulcis, iridescens etc. Parvifiolia and Atrovaginata seem good choices as the reports that exist indicate they are in fact a bit more hardy.

Anyways those are just my thoughts on the matter.

Greetings from Austria!
johnw
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Re: Zone 6 bamboo

Post by johnw »

Leo S and Nicholas

Excellent information from both of you. Thanks so much.

13c here and Phyllos shooting faster despite the wet & cold.
johnw coastal Nova Scotia
UPBooMatt
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Re: Zone 6 bamboo

Post by UPBooMatt »

I realize how old this thread I'm resurrecting is, but Leo and Nicholas posts should almost be a sticky...lol...they could serve as a primer for anyone chosing bamboo for a cold climate. Leo's experience with his aureosulcata planting especially, there's no better example of what a mature Grove can handle in a zone 5 climate that I've found reading on this board. Are either of you still around even?
Nicholas
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Re: Zone 6 bamboo

Post by Nicholas »

I'm still around (mostly lurking).

I must say I'm really not qualified to talk about zone 5 issues with bamboo. We are mostly blessed with our climate here and while the temperatures on bad winters only ever briefly dip into zone 6. It is mostly a warm, dry climate with hot and sunny summers.

Having said that, now that my parvifolia and atrovaginata are a bit older I would say that atrovaginata is a bit more vigorous while parvifolia has a nice clumping habit for a phyllostachys.
I still think they are both fairly good choices if you are aiming for a large bamboo in a cold climate. They never had any leaf damage here while my other large bamboos (vivax and shanghai 3) have had at least some damage.

I've managed to kill all my aureosulcatas as they were all potted which is a really bad idea if it gets cold (rhizomes are quite cold sensitive and if the pot freezes through the damage is quite severe), however a potted bashania fargesii survived (with almost full top kill). Its rhizomes tend to go quite deep when planted outside (can be deeper than 1 meter!) so it would be interesting to see if that species could handle colder climates if protected for a few years.

In any case, happy bamboo growing and may your winters be mild and snowy ;)

[edit]

Oh yeah, I think the planting location and microclimate make a world of difference.
I've got a phyllostachys nigra growing right next to a wooden shed (to the south) and a hawthorn hedge (to the west) which creates a somewhat sheltered spot in the garden.
It has only ever had moderate leaf damage and is doing really well (I've often heard nigra is not overly hardy but can't really compare)
My moso bicolor lives right next to it and with some tarping has never had problems during its two winters outside
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