Potential of phyllostachys vivax in zone 6

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stevelau1911
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Potential of phyllostachys vivax in zone 6

Post by stevelau1911 »

I still have potted specimens on a vivax aureocaulus, and VHI, and I am starting to think that vivax can still achieve impressive sizes in zone 6. When I had it in the ground, I never kept it in there to establish after I found that there was complete top kill and some rhizome death, but I may have never given it a fair chance as I dug out those survival shoots very early. Those culms may have never been adapted to cooler weather, and I made it even worse when I never tarped it over, expecting it to live up to its hardiness rating of -5F.

After visiting a bamboo collector in PA around 200+ miles south of here, I found that vivax seems to thrive, and upsize more than any bamboo I have ever seen going from a 1ft tall tiny shoot to a 7ft tall culm this year. Of course there won't be a 7 fold size increase for next year, but that kind up up-size potential may allow vivax to achieve 40-50ft in zone 6 given that there are surrounding trees to nullify wind chill, and that summers get hot enough to fully harden off the culms.


In this forum thread, this guy has a vivax that seems to be nearly as hardy as yellow groove, but based on the appearance of that shoot, he may have it misidentified for one of the dulcis cultivators.
http://www.bamboo-craft.net/forums/show ... ight=vivax
ShmuBamboo
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Re: Potential of phyllostachys vivax in zone 6

Post by ShmuBamboo »

Vivax is one of my best growing boos here, but the thin walls are suseptible to breaking under any snow loading here.

I do not see why it would not grow in zone 6... it thrives in zone 7.
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Re: Potential of phyllostachys vivax in zone 6

Post by dependable »

I have P vivax and vivax aureocaulis in zone 7a. They have done well. Hurricane sandy tipped over a couple of new 50 ft culms, but they were away from the main grouping. In the past, some culms have broken by snow load. Am prepared for the fact that they could be defoliated or killed to ground by arctic blast. That has not happened for years, but it probably will happen again. The groves are a lot more established now than when they were last cold blasted, so we will see.
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Re: Potential of phyllostachys vivax in zone 6

Post by johnw »

dependable - We've got to see pix of that 50ft vivax on the Cape! How long has it been since it last froze back? I'm afraid it would get battered here by wet snow, dry snow is not frequent here.

+10c here and sunny on & off. Far too mild for this time of year.
johnw coastal Nova Scotia
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Re: Potential of phyllostachys vivax in zone 6

Post by dependable »

Last freeze back was 8 or 10 years ago. Have not kept temp logs. Will try to post pictures, The last couple times I have tried, was unable to get the pictures to reduce in Mbs to get accepted into forum. Assume it is a problem on my end.
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Re: Potential of phyllostachys vivax in zone 6

Post by stevelau1911 »

How cold hardy is vivax? Are the huangwenzhu, and huangwenzhu inversa varieties any hardier?

From what I see so far, a juvenile vivax cannot handle temperatures below 5F. I know there is a lot of snow in my area, but if all the culms are tied together in the entire clump, then, that could minimize the culm damage from breakage. From my experience, Vivax seems to be less hardy than moso, but my guess is that there has to be a reason behind its -5F rating, or -9F rating for huangwenzhu. It sounds like vivax is a pretty strong performer in zone 7, but when you drop 1 zone lower, it will struggle unless the micro-climate conditions are very ideal.


I might just have better luck with Shanghai III which still has decent size potential with a similar form to vivax, except with better hardiness. Some other bamboos I have considered are nigra megurochiku, or iridescens, but their hardiness may still be questionable in my climate. I might already have the best performing bamboos for my climate.
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Re: Potential of phyllostachys vivax in zone 6

Post by dependable »

Trying to post pictures. Shipping container to right in second photo is 8 ft high. Shorter bamboos on left in third photo well established P aureosulcata. Revised estimate of height of tallest few culms to 47-48 ft. these are not as fully leafed out and tops don't show as well. I just cut down a damaged culm. It is 42 ft from base to top of leaves & it was not the tallest..

Took some measurements on above culm. Hight of culm at first branch; 19 ft. Culm wall thickness at base; 7/16 inch. Culm wall thickness at first branch; 1/4 inch. Culm diameter at 5 ft up; 3 1/2 inches.

Have no experience with shanghai, but it may be a better choice. Are its walls any thicker? Vivax culm walls are pretty thin considering size of plant. Most of my stands are semi protected by intermittent oak tree canopy. Suspect may would fare worse in open field.
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stevelau1911
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Re: Potential of phyllostachys vivax in zone 6

Post by stevelau1911 »

I think shanghai III can still get into the 3-4 inch range, and my guess is that the walls may be on the thin side due to its ease of sizing up however I don't think it is anywhere near as thin walled as vivax. Its one advantage is that it can sometimes put out a random big shoot, making shooting season more exciting.
Image

There aren't that many people growing Shanghai III yet in the U.S. so I don't know if it even has decent hardiness. My guess is that it will perform about the same as dulcis around here.


It could be that prominens is the best performer in my climate due to its positive reports in northern parts of Europe. I still want to try out my vivax varieties in the ground again to see if they are worth growing.
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Re: Potential of phyllostachys vivax in zone 6

Post by johnw »

dependable - Woweeee. Those stands are impressive to say the least. Must be a northernmost record.

I've been to Polly Hill's on Martha's Vineyard and it really is mild out there, she had a Camellia and Magnolia grandiflora growing in her playpen. While the southernmost tip of NS may be as mild there is s lot more wind and it is very cool in summer - you don't sit outside at night and tomatoes don't ripen- so P.vivax would be a no-go for there. Also there snow there is the heavy and wet variety and you get some every time the coldest winds blow from the northwest .

Steve - Wasn't prominens damaged in Europe last winter? I don't know where to go looking now? Germany got a blast of "cold" yesterday. Wiesbaden was down to -11c at midnight. Doubt if they have much to worry about with snow down too.
johnw coastal Nova Scotia
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Re: Potential of phyllostachys vivax in zone 6

Post by pokenei »

I'd love to have this growing in my small back yard, just towering over my house. What a site...

Image

But unless there is a cultivar that is able to withstand zone 5 winters, this will only be a dream...literally. (I dreamt of this).

So we know Vivax can grow big in zone 7a. Zone 6 is borderline and untested, while zone 5 is pretty much a top kill every year, but roots will survive.


btw, the photo width/length limit for posting in this forum is 1000 px. I always re-size my photos to exactly that. We need some sponsors...to give us a gzillion gigs of storage space and speed boost.
stevelau1911
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Re: Potential of phyllostachys vivax in zone 6

Post by stevelau1911 »

I think in last winter, all bamboos may have been damaged in Europe in the cooler regions, but prominens seems to put on size quickly so it may bounce back from being damaged much faster, even if is not the absolute hardiest phyllostachys. Also looking at how warm the lakes still are, and the warm December, I doubt that this winter will be cooler than average. We still haven't had any snow accumulation, or temperatures any lower than -3C. Even with a huge shift in the weather pattern, the lakes will still be warm.
http://www.climatecentral.org/news/grea ... rd-levels/
Lake temperatures might not mean much outside of the great lakes region, but warm waters will reduce winter extremes by quite a bit, especially if they are at record levels.

Here's the vivax in zone 6 which was able to upsize from 1ft up to around 7ft without protection, but I'm guessing that all the trees behind it really cut down the wind chill, and last winter really never had any extremely cold temperatures. Of course it probably won't make culms 7X taller next year, but given that a vivax grove is well established, it may only take a couple consecutive warm winters for it to reach amazing proportions.
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Re: Potential of phyllostachys vivax in zone 6

Post by dependable »

[quote="johnw"]

I've been to Polly Hill's on Martha's Vineyard and it really is mild out there, she had a Camellia and Magnolia grandiflora growing in her playpen.

I live about 3 miles from Polly Hill arboretum.
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Re: Potential of phyllostachys vivax in zone 6

Post by johnw »

Small world. Polly used to visit NS as her son had a summer home here. Back about 1979 she sent me cuttings of her North Tisbury azaleas to test here, they are great plants here, prostrate and July -August bloomers. She did some great work and inspired me to breed azaleas. Most people don't know of her magnolia work.

johnw - +5c
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Re: Potential of phyllostachys vivax in zone 6

Post by Mackel in DFW »

Vivax is my favorite bamboo of twenty species, these days. I am a believer that synthetic nitrogen weakens vivax.

MinDFW
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Re: Potential of phyllostachys vivax in zone 6

Post by Mackel in DFW »

What I'm trying to do with it is have it shoot slower, limiting somewhat nitrogen and water during this time. This should produce stronger culms. I've heard some people say that vivax as a huge clump is not as weak as one would think. Also, mixed with my vivax (yeller coloured)is bambusoides which should support the vivax anyway.


MinDFW
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