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Author:  Jeff: Igor's Apprentice [ Sun May 13, 2012 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Polyploidy

Any signs of a change in this latest shoot?

Author:  foxd [ Mon May 14, 2012 1:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Polyploidy

Jeff: Igor's Apprentice wrote:
Any signs of a change in this latest shoot?

The leaves look larger, but it may have just reverted to a more juvenile form. Also another shoot has emerged in the A. gigantea.

The treated Ps. japonica and viridula are also producing shoots.

Still looking for some sign of difference.

Author:  johnw [ Mon May 14, 2012 3:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Polyploidy

When F. murielae flowered and set seed here in 1999 I treated some of the sprouting seed with Surflan in Agust 1999. The goal was to double the chromosomes in the hope of getting an even lustier and taller murielae. There are still some plants kicking around -and they are still in 2-3 gallon pots, if anything I dwarfed them. Have to check on those planted out but doubt they differ greatly.

BTW I had no deaths with the treated ones. Soak time was 36 hours and 46 hours. I doubled the normal dose then they were rinsed under running water circa 1 hour and then treat at normal strength again and rinsed yet again. One group were not rinsed and gave severely congested dwarf plants. I see I made a note that all treated plants - rinsed and unrised had extremely swollen roots.

So that went nowhere. I understand monocots are terribly difficult to deal with as they can easily "escape" polyploiding just as dicots often manage to do. Paul.....?

Author:  foxd [ Sat May 19, 2012 7:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Polyploidy

The tiny A. gigantea shoot is now about three foot tall and about an eighth of an inch in diameter. It hasn't produced branches yet.
The other shoot has so far remained unremarkable.

Author:  foxd [ Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Polyploidy

Just for the record some new shoots on each of the three remaining treated bamboo.

Author:  foxd [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Polyploidy

Something I've noticed on the older canes of the A. gigantea. The skin seems to have had flakes fall off of it. I've not noticed this on other gigantea and will keep an eye out to see if the new canes do the same thing.

Also all the treated bamboo is now planted outside.

Author:  foxd [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Polyploidy

All the treated bamboo made it through the Winter and has grown vigorously. I can't quite figure out what, but the A. gigantean looks different somehow. Perhaps I can figure out what when it finishes leafing out.

Author:  Leo S [ Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Polyploidy

The only way to be certain as to whether or not you successfully induced polyploidy, is to do a root tip cell squash, stain it and with a 1000x microscope, shoot a picture, then count the chromosomes. This is the only certain method.

A fairly accurate way to "guess" would be to use a simple dissection scope - maybe 60x, and measure guard cells of the stomata. First measure untreated cells, each species of bamboo will have a unique "average" diameter of the cells. A 4N guard cell will be roughly twice the diameter of the 2N guard cell, and aneuploids will be inbetween. A triploid will be 1.5 the diameter. Mind you, this only provides an educated guess, you can still be off. This technique was proven reasonably accurate with orchids, I have not heard of it being used on other families of plants, but it should work.

A dissecting scope is considerably cheaper than a good oil immersion scope, and not sample staining or preparation is really needed - so it is a fast and cheap technique. (relatively fast, but still time consuming).

Often 4N and higher plants are slower growers than the 2N, 3N plants can be faster than their 2N counterparts - especially in hybrids. The growth of a 4N plant should be thicker, and larger in all dimensions, even though it may be slower growing.

If you did not kill roughly 25% to 50% of the treatment sample, your solution may have been too weak or exposure time too short. The conjested foliage plants may in fact have included some converted plants. A dissecting scope could help with sorting that out. The if the plant with the conjested foliage is given a few seasons - it will grow out of the conjested behavior, and the effect of ploidy conversion will remain, if it was converted.

At least these are my thoughts, again, my experience is with orchids, not bamboo. So take my thoughts with that in mind.

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