Sawdust / grass question

[terrabamboo]

I have a resource now who is giving me 6 yards of mahogany/cypress shavings a week. Awesome. I plan on covering my entire land in it over the next year.

My question: will grass clippings alone as I cut the grass every month and as the grass lays on top of the cypress shavings -- will it eventually bind/break down the wood shavings? Or does that happen in chicken manure/wood shavings differently than it would with grass? Any out of the box suggestions on how to utilize this large amount of wood shavings?

[dependable]

When composting organic materials, the carbon/nitrogen ratio is key to the success or speed of breakdown. The micro organisms that break down carbonacious materials have a greater ability to bind nitrogen than plants, that is why too much low nitrogen material can lead to nitrogen deficiency if put on plants. But it will eventually raise organic content of soil, which of coarse is good.

Chicken manure and grass clippings are a good source of nitrogen, so blending them with shavings is a good idea. Unless you have a lot of grass clippings, they won't be enough alone. They also need to be mixed in or you will loose some of the nitrogen to air. I would keep shavings in pile and blend in nitrogenous material as it becomes available. It may combust some in the middle, that is ok, as it speeds breakdown. Keep piles away from buildings though.

Cypress as a wood resists decay more than some other woods, so complete break down may take more time. Time and moisture alone will eventually break it down, but adding the nitrogen and mixing with loader will speed things up. Sometimes I get a similar amount of sawdust when a friend cleans the collection systems in his shop. I mix them in with the wood chips (from tree chipper)which helps with porosity, and yard compost from landscaping and let it sit or occasionally stir with machine. When it is moist inside and the red earth worms get going in it you know it is on its way.

Sorry for the lecture. The short answer is it would be good to stockpile and mix and let age before you apply it to land.

[Alan_L]

If it's being applied to the top of the soil (as a mulch), then I'd be much less concerned about nitrogen deficiency. Some studies show that the nitrogren "stealing" only happens at the mulch/soil boundary.

Besides, I've mulched my bamboos with wood chips and/or leaves for years and have never seen a problem -- I do fertilize a few times a year with Milorganite though, which is probably offsetting any N loss.

[terrabamboo]

12 yards a month is a lot of sawdust to sit in a pile after a while... I was hoping to just layer it all over the 100 acres. ok so grass clippings are not enough.. so how much would a 55gal drum of N be to just spray it on top? or urea? just soak the sawdust -- would that work? or would I need multiple soakings?

just trying to think large scale how to get a thick layer of organic material at a decent price!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dependable]

If you see signs of N deficiency you can apply some N as needed. You could experiment to see how little N you can get by with, a single application may be enough depending on thickness of sawdust layer. When N is added to sawdust, it will turn darker and decay faster. You will be sheet composting instead of having to manage piles.

[terrabamboo]

I'm now worried I've created a glorious VOLE habitat. If I add heavy N now will that help/hurt? If I add large amounts of manure, will that help/hurt the situation? Are voles less attracted if there is manure there? Can I spread something that is a fox attractant ?

[Alan_L]

I believe voles *are* a fox attractant.

[dependable]

If I add heavy N now will that help/hurt? If I add large amounts of manure, will that help/hurt the situation?

The manure will usually help with N to speed up rot as well as adding more organic material.

[stevelau1911]

I really wouldn't worry about piling on too much stuff because the more you add, the quicker the composting effect will occur, and the higher the microbial activity will become. Feeding the soil ultimately feeds the plants that grow on it.

For example, I add all kinds of organic materials, chicken manure, compost, grass clippings scraps, etc to my moso bicolor 2-3 times per year, but the only result is more worms, and richer soil, and with tens of thousands of worms in there, all that material just turns into pure worm castings over time.

I don't think results like this would happen without improving the soil. That culm right of the shoot was the biggest one until this monster dwarfed it.


I've dug 2ft deep under that area, and it is still straight up black soil while when I dig into a less pampered grove, the conditioned soil only goes down no more than 1ft. There are lots of cats around here, but no voles so I guess it's OK to layer it on. Under any spot in the middle of the lawn, it is just mostly clay.

I would say that if you have any kind of organic material whether it is sticks, hay, wood chips, cardboard, or anything that is bio-degradable, it's OK to lay it on. Also before planting, it may speed things up to till in a bunch of mulch/manure to get a head start on conditioning the soil. I think even logs would rot away within a couple years if you improve your soil enough.

[terrabamboo]

I have a considerable amount of trees (100s) I am removing from a 200 piece of land and I am contemplating purchasing a heavy duty chipper to then spread chips on my 100 acres of bamboo -- over December -- and then around march I was going to purchase loads of bloodmeal to apply before shooting season. any improvements to this plan?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[stevelau1911]

How much will it cost to get a wood chipper powerful enough to handle entire trees? I think it would also take a decent amount of time and effort as well as helping hands to handle hundreds of trees. If you already have a source of wood chips, I think it would make sense to leave the trees alone until the trees are in the way of planting more bamboos. Another reason is that small bamboos don't need that much mulch just starting out. The trees themselves could be used to create raised beds if you have a tractor to move them around. The mulch from those trees may be more useful a few years down the road when the bamboos get much larger and can benefit from tons of mulch.

As far as a fertilizer for everything, you may want to ask some local farmers especially the ones that grow wheat or corn to see what they use as far as getting bang for the buck. If you have drought, clay soil, or drainage problems, gypsum may help to condition the soil. Blood meal is natural, but some issues I see is that it is only nitrogen, and may be costly. A lot of times, there are cow or horse farmers who are more than willing to give away their manure as long as you are willing to get a truck and load it. Some may deliver to you for a small fee if it's not too expensive. Just check out craigslist and you may have some in your area if you just type in "manure" or compost. One thing that should make sense to get is a cultivator to till in the manure to improve the overall soil profile. You can add as much fertilizers as you want, but without conditioning the soil, the roots will still have a hard time in taking in the nutrients.

[terrabamboo]

steve, my goal with mulching + nitrogen would be to eventually have the nitrogen bind to the mulch and break it down to create that thick layer of compost you rave about (but how do you do that on a large, 100 acre scale?).

[stevelau1911]

As far as getting similar results to that giant bicolor shoot in the previous picture, that is from biannual applications of horse manure +milorganite in the spring. I ordered a pallet of milorganite a few years ago, and it seems to help the bamboo leaves get a bit darker. I fertilize about a month before shooting season, and again once the shoots have reached full height and have gotten well leafed out. For me, it would be April and July because I like to fertilize just prior to when I am expecting the bamboos to be ready to take in nutrients in their growth cycle.

I think in a 100 acre scale, getting a high end cultivator/ tiller will be able to instantly improve the soil down to the 1-2ft range so the microbial activity can be activated given that you fertilize before the ground is tilled. It's not that tough to avoid chopping up the rhizomes. I don't have that many bamboos so I just mix in organic materials with a shovel.

[johnw]

steve, my goal with mulching + nitrogen would be to eventually have the nitrogen bind to the mulch and break it down to create that thick layer of compost you rave about (but how do you do that on a large, 100 acre scale?).

Have you thought about sowing a cover crop? Your local ag rep should be able to suggest a good one for both autumn and spring. At some point I'd suggest an alfalfa one as it is quite a stimulant.

johnw - +7c and rain on the way.

[stevelau1911]

I've thought about getting the crimson clover, but the problem is that I tend to put a lot of stuff over my bamboo groves which may easily smother the clover plants. I guess it's worth a test.

I know they are supposed to be nitrogen fixing as well as able to improve the soil structure, but does that mean they would replace adding manure on an annual basis?

I know alfalfa tea is supposed to have some sort of hormone that boosts the growth of most plants. I've used it late in the season last year so I couldn't really tell if it did anything.