How to maximize the size of next year's shoots.

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stevelau1911
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How to maximize the size of next year's shoots.

Post by stevelau1911 »

After my first winter of having bamboo I've figured out there are things that can be done to invest in bigger shoots the following year. From what I have observed so far, the bamboos that retained the most green leaves have had the biggest gains in shoot size, but there are probably many factors that also effect it.

-The most important thing to do is to protect the plant over the winter as well as allowing the leaves to get sunlight so they don't fall off from lack of energy which only pertains to less cold hardy species. That means just wrapping it up, or loading it with leaves won't work.

-Another thing thats important is to maximize the leaf output of the plant by applying a nitrogen high fertilizer, or manure at around this time of the year since bamboos are leafing out. I think the #, size, or spread of the rhizomes matter as much since its the top part that continually supplies the energy.

-Having a good 2-3 inch layer of mulch is important to retain moisture, regulate temperature, keep out weeds and keep the soil underneath softer. You also don't have to water the plants when they are well mulched.

Thats all I can think of right now, if theres anything else that can be done please let me know. My tallest culm from this year is only topping off at 7-8ft on my Dulcis so I'm hoping that next year will bring me something beyond 10feet, which could only happen on the Dulcis, yellow grove, or parvifolia if I'm lucky.
ShmuBamboo
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Re: How to maximize the size of next year's shoots.

Post by ShmuBamboo »

I agree with feeding and coarse mulching. I feed the crap out of my boos. Lots and lots of nitrogen starting in March and I feed them right through the end of summer. I believe in maximum protection for the rhizomes in winter, and mulch helps to do that. It also helps to protect them from drying out in summer, and makes an easy medium for them to roam in. However, when bamboos get tall, they are impossible to protect from wind and cold. They are also impossible to protect from heat waves. All you can do is water them down.

As for food storage, bamboos store food in the rhizomes and in the culms. The leaves are factories, but if there is enough food stored, they can sacrafice the leaves every year. My boos are leafing out now in a huge flush of green, after shooting over the past few months. I can get 20 feet bamboo even if they are potted in 25 gallon tubs. In the ground I can get to 40 feet easy from several timber types.
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Steve in France
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Re: How to maximize the size of next year's shoots.

Post by Steve in France »

As I believe top down feeding is the most important factor in getting Max growth from Bamboos I water the plants everyday. If France where I had very sandy soil I even watered when it was raining as the rain often only wets the top 1/4 inch of soil/mulch. I also added Osmocote time release fert plus fast release Lawn fert, plus any Garden waste like leaves and lawn clippings. I Mulched with manure 3 times a year including spring shooting time. Bamboos are one of theose plants that the more you work to improve there conditions the better they respond. This is for Bamboos in the ground.
Bamboos in pots I use Osmocote 3 month time release plus fast release Miracle grow , plus water everyday.
I only have potted Bamboos here , I'll try for some pics later today.
Best Wishes
Steve
Always experimenting to get Timber Bamboos Timber size :-)
stevelau1911
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Re: How to maximize the size of next year's shoots.

Post by stevelau1911 »

I also added Osmocote time release fert plus fast release Lawn fert
osmocote sounds like a pretty good idea since it provides a constant supply of fertilizer. I'm not sure if watering everyday is absolutely necessary to make the bamboo produce as many leaves as possible because the ground usually retains alot of moisture especially if theres mulch on top of it. I only water mine about once a week if the ground is dry, or if it gets hot. I also use lawn fertilizer a few times a year, but I plan to stop fertilizing after September once they need to harden off for winter. I plant on giving all my boos a fertilization of miracle gro, grass fertilizer, and some slow release kind this weekend and hope they leaf out nicely by July.

Heres a few of my plants from pictures taken today.

Parvifolia showing its long arching culms, middle shoot aborted 2/3 the way up, but made up for it with longer branches.
Image

Moso making bigger & bigger leaves soon to be very bushy
Image

yellow grove with 2 new shoots barely visible in this picture.
http://bambooweb.info/images/bamboo/257/dsc02953.jpg

Dulcis, old culm will be un-noticable once this shoot leafs out
Image

Vivax after top kill
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ghmerrill
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Re: How to maximize the size of next year's shoots.

Post by ghmerrill »

I agree on feed, feed, feed, and mulch...

I fertilized very few bamboos last year, and mulched a few.... the results this year have been dissapointing! my vivax did not size up at all, same with my P. a. Aureocaulis, which are two that I expected to get some good size to them. However, the ones that I did mulch heavily with grass clippings last year really put on some spread, although not much of a size gain. this year feeding once per month is my goal, and mulching as much as I can. With that combo, you are going to maximize the amount of growth you get, provided they plants have the soil moisture they need.
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Steve in France
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Re: How to maximize the size of next year's shoots.

Post by Steve in France »

My thinking on watering a lot is not so much keeping the ground moist as it is keeping the fert flowing down passed the roots of the Bamboo. I think Bamboo roots on running Bamboos just form and then don't do much growing, just like culms.
I may well be wrong but having dug many Bamboos it seems to be what I see. I treat the Bamboos like rain forest growing plants which in there natural habitat many are. In a Rain Forest there is little good stuff in the soil it's all in the few inches of leaf mulch and other organic material on the Forest floor, the high rainfall in the Forest washes the fert and trace elements down to the roots of the plants, where it goes right back up the trees/Bamboos .This keeps the soil poor and all the good stuff in a cycle. I know it's not the same in a garden with good soil , but if the roots of Bamboo are lazy then they will use up all the food right next to the root and they only pickup what is passing in water .I really believe in top down feeding for Bamboos and the growth rates I have had in France and here keep me doing it.
Best Wishes
Steve
Always experimenting to get Timber Bamboos Timber size :-)
stevelau1911
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Re: How to maximize the size of next year's shoots.

Post by stevelau1911 »

the roots of Bamboo are lazy then they will use up all the food right next to the root and they only pickup what is passing in water .I really believe in top down feeding for Bamboos and the growth rates I have had in France and here keep me doing it.
It kind of makes sense since I don't see bamboo roots off the rhizomes usually get much longer than about 2 feet, and the ignored grove of aerosulcata which I took a piece off of had much shorter roots off the rhizomes probably because of the lack of watering and fertilization. IF they are continually fed, it makes sense that more more leaf growth is possible since the supply of soil nutrient increases resulting in ultimately more stored energy in the rhizomes.

I'm going to water my boos a little more frequently now if you are getting good results from it. Another factor in the size of shoots the following year is the size and amount of existing culms given bamboo is a colony plant. I'm also planning of bending my culms away from each other so they get more sunlight simply by staking them in order to get the maximum leaf to sun exposure. I only need to do it on the parvifolia seeing how 2 of the culms slant into each other.

Cutting down trees in the area would also help because most bamboos do better in full sun.
Last edited by stevelau1911 on Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mantis
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Re: How to maximize the size of next year's shoots.

Post by mantis »

I too water every day, and even multiple times a day. With as much sun as I get if I skip a day all of the dirt in my pots goes bone dry (dirt pulls away from the edge of the pots), the plants curl their leaves, and shoots start aborting. I run the sprinkler system at 6am, and then hand water at 6pm. This drought is horrible. Even with all that watering nothing is upsizing. :(
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Re: How to maximize the size of next year's shoots.

Post by ShmuBamboo »

ghmerrill wrote:I agree on feed, feed, feed, and mulch...

I fertilized very few bamboos last year, and mulched a few.... the results this year have been dissapointing! my vivax did not size up at all, same with my P. a. Aureocaulis, which are two that I expected to get some good size to them. However, the ones that I did mulch heavily with grass clippings last year really put on some spread, although not much of a size gain. this year feeding once per month is my goal, and mulching as much as I can. With that combo, you are going to maximize the amount of growth you get, provided they plants have the soil moisture they need.
I would feed them twice a month when they are shooting. Myself, I feed them half strength once a week (Miricle Grow, or any comparable water soluble fert on sale). If they are starting to shoot or showing yellow leaves, I up the dose to full strength. We had a vicious winter for this area this year with ice and snow and high winds, and a long period of sub-freezing temps. Worst winter in 20 years. This spring, most of my vivax are doubling or even trebling in size! My Henon is on a tear and nuda is screaming. Even a clump of nuda that I moved last fall has doubled in size from new shoots. All the blacks are putting on a mass of new leaves now and dumping the winter burned ones. Compare that to some Golden I put in late last fall from down the road (bridge work condemned several houses with bamboos that I saved). They are only putting up spindly shoots and a few leaves. They had no food last year at all. Results: not much activity this year. No food stored up. I am feeding them and feeding them, but seemingly for next year's shoots. Some of the culms are dying out. Maybe I will get a summer and fall shooting spree from them though. Golden will do that. They had thick mulch from when I planted them, and it is still raining here this year. So it is not a water issue.

My theory is to make the rhizomes happy, and the rest of the plant will follow. I water when needed; my rule of thumb is to water every 3 days when in the 70s, every 2 days when in the 80s, and every day when in the 90s. In the 100s water twice a day and spray the entire plant with water several times a day. Its helps keep them cool, and helps to control the spider mites. Bamboos have a natural heat defense to curl their leaves in hot weather, or when they are dehydrated. In pots it is impossible to overwater bamboos. They are really only suseptible to flooding in standing water. Here in Oregon we get rains for months on end, and it does not seem to affect the bamboo at all.

Bamboos are like that plant in the movie Little Shop of Horrors. Feed Me Seymore!
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Re: How to maximize the size of next year's shoots.

Post by ShmuBamboo »

Steve in France wrote:My thinking on watering a lot is not so much keeping the ground moist as it is keeping the fert flowing down passed the roots of the Bamboo. I think Bamboo roots on running Bamboos just form and then don't do much growing, just like culms.
Steve
I think you need to make a distinction between bamboo roots and rhizomes. Boo roots are always growing if it is warm enough, as seen in my aureosulcatas that I potted up earlier in the year. I just re-potted them after the roots hit the bottom of the 5 gallon tub I put them into in March! The rhizomes seem to have growth spurts more like the culms. I think they are very similar plant structures, except rhizomes put out roots and culms put out leaves. Rhizomes also can turn into weak culms, and also dive back under to run as rhizomes (ankle breakers). So they may well be the same plant structure that specialize differently depending on if they are in air or soil.
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Re: How to maximize the size of next year's shoots.

Post by ShmuBamboo »

mantis wrote:I too water every day, and even multiple times a day. With as much sun as I get if I skip a day all of the dirt in my pots goes bone dry (dirt pulls away from the edge of the pots), the plants curl their leaves, and shoots start aborting. I run the sprinkler system at 6am, and then hand water at 6pm. This drought is horrible. Even with all that watering nothing is upsizing. :(
A post about fertilizer. Specifically notrogen. Nitrogen is highly soluble in water. If you over-water your boos, you are leeching the soil of nitrogen, regardless of being in pots or in the ground. It is quite true that roots (any roots, not just bamboo) are passive and need to be in contact with water to absorb water and nutrients from the soil. Some people think that roots grow toward water, but in reality they require water to grow in and they will follow a water seam in the soil. My point being here is to be aware of nitrogen solubility, and leeching. It is the reason that I use fertilizers dissolved in water. I also do not water for at least a day after feeding my bamboos (or any other plants). So I schedule bamboo feeding only during and in cooler (sub 90 degree) weather. You should be able to get bamboo to grow in a drought, as long as you water them, and as long as you are aware of nitorgen leeching from over-watering.

Also a point about nitrogen and iron and phosphate... while we are on the topic of fertilizer. Yellowing in leaves can be casued by many factors, but the two main ones are nitrogen deficiency or iron deficiency. Nitrogen deficiency will show up as older leaves turning yellow. This is becasue (again) nitrogen is highly soluble, and thus highly portable in plants. When short on nitrogen, plants will move notrogen from older leaves to the newer ones, and sacrifice the old leaves in hopes that the roots will find some new source of nitrogen. Iron is not very soluble, and plants cannot move it around as easilly. Thus when new leaves are yellow, it is typically becasue of iron deficiency.

Now on to a point about soil pH and why it matters in iron and phosphate applications in plant fertilizers. In alkaline soils, iron is bound up by the soil. The plants cannot take up the iron and hence become yellow and suffer. Consequently you need to add chelated iron to alkaline soils to make your plants happy (any plants, not just bamboo). The flip side is that in acid soils, iron is released and becomes available to plants, but phosphates become locked up by the metals in the soil. So, in acid soil, you need to add more phosphate. A lack of phosphate will diminish the ability of plants to photosynthesize, and thus they cannot use the available nitrogen, regardless of the amount of nitorgen available. I use extra Ironite in alkaline soils, and I use Superphosphate in acid soils. These are also blended into water soluble fertilizers like Miricle Grow.
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Re: How to maximize the size of next year's shoots.

Post by mantis »

ShmuBamboo wrote:So I schedule bamboo feeding only during and in cooler (sub 90 degree) weather.

And herein lies one of the inherent problems with this board... We cover a HUGE range of growing conditions. If I only fed in sub 90 degree weather I couldn't feed from May through October.

I do fertilize about once a month. I have some very potent fertilizer... 34-3-11. I definitely don't have to worry about running out of nitrogen in the soil. I will study more on the iron aspect. Thanks for bringing it to my attention :)
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Re: How to maximize the size of next year's shoots.

Post by ShmuBamboo »

You are taking me out of context. I have lived in hot climates, like Palm Springs, CA and Daytona Beach, FL. I had thriving greenhouses there, and I fed my roses and orchids and bamboos there in 90+ degree heat. I feed my boos here in a cooler climate when they are at or below optimum growing temperature. I have the luxury of timing their diet here. I do not prescribe that as the only time to feed, nor that what I do here is the only thing that everyone else should do anywhere else. Far from it.

I still think that you are leaching the nitrogen from your soil though. Watering twice a day will do that. Even if you put on urea or ammonium sulphate. I used to feed and leach my roses in San Diego on a shchedule; after every bloom cycle, feed, get new growth, leach the nitrogen by watering, and they would set another round of blooms. I would recommend that you feed your boos more though. Maybe half strength twice a month, instead of full strength once a month. Or even half strength once every week. I do that here. Half strength every week with 20-20-20. They grow like mad. They are shooting like mad. I have happy bamboos.

If it is not fertilizer availability, it may be that it is just too hot for your bamboo to take up enough fertilizer this time of year. The reason being that when temperatures get above 90 degrees, most plants respire more than they can photosynthesize new food. Basically they strip their own resources, especially if it is hot at night and they cannot rest. They will continue to respire and grow at night if it warm or hot. So this time of year in your climate, they have to run on reserves stored in the rhizomes and the culms to keep pace with respiration. That in turn drains the plant come rhizome and shooting season. So maybe the remedy is to feed them a lot more in the shoulder seasons when temperatures are cooler. Just a suggestion.

Overall I think that most eveyone does not feed their bamboos enough. Unless there are steaming piles of barnyard poop piled up on the culms, then that would be enough. Bamboos are glutons. The pro bamboo nurseries here feed heavy nitrogen starting in February; urea or ammonium sulphate. When I lived on a sheep farm in the previous 4 years, I piled on sheep poop twice a year. They loved that stuff. Too much is not enough!

Feed me Seymore! :mrgreen:
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Steve in France
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Re: How to maximize the size of next year's shoots.

Post by Steve in France »

Great info , thanks very much for taking the time. I'm still trying to locate my digital camera, when I do I'll post a pic or two.
Best Wishes
Steve
p.s. I'll post an of old Shanghai 3 pics from the Garden in France.
The location would be in a line with Vancouver Canada , so way North.
Summers cool winters cold. This plant is in it's third shooting season. It was started is more or less just sand as the garden had no soil to begin with. I mulched and used a lot of fert for four years and ended up with a rich dark brown growing medium. I watered everyday because of the sand . With Shanghai 3 being a very easy Bamboo to get whipshoots and small divisions from I took six or so divisions from this plant over the two years and still had a very good growth rate on the main plant.
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Shanghai 3 in it's third shooting season. The start was a single 4 to 5 foot culm
Shanghai 3 in it's third shooting season. The start was a single 4 to 5 foot culm
Always experimenting to get Timber Bamboos Timber size :-)
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Re: How to maximize the size of next year's shoots.

Post by Alan_L »

ShmuBamboo wrote:...Overall I think that most eveyone does not feed their bamboos enough.
Who's in charge of fertilizing the Moso groves in China, because those seem to be quite happy plants? :wink:

Too much synthetic fertilizer can be a bad thing for *any* plant, especially small ones that are not established yet. I don't want somebody reading this topic in a couple years and killing their new bamboo seedlings because they piled on the Miracle-Gro or lawn fertilizer.

Also, not everybody wants huge groves of bamboo. Many people have limited growing areas for their bamboo, and fertilizing a lot may make it harder to contain or will congest the growing area faster.

In those cases fertilizing when needed to keep the plant healthy is fine (and necessary), or if the plant is not sizing up the way you hoped for or expected then fertilize more, but more fertilizer is not always the answer.
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