Starting seeds for spring for gardening or perennials

Other plants we have or landscape elements like ponds.

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canadianplant
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Re: Starting seeds for spring for gardening or perennials

Post by canadianplant »

Ok, I cant complain about 25 bucks for that ballast and bulb. The bulbs for them alone are over 100 bucks!

I also never meant it was overkill for what you are using it for, just possibly for that one tank. You can use it over a much larger area. My strop light is at 25000 luminins, and its growing palms, herbs tomatoes and what not. It also puts out a crazy amount of heat (way more then I expected) If you are trying heat, would a heat mat be more efficiant?
stevelau1911
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Re: Starting seeds for spring for gardening or perennials

Post by stevelau1911 »

If I were to have this metal halide on all the time, then the cost could add up, but it only costs on average 1.55 cents per hour to have this thing on so if I end up having it on for 250 hours, that will cost 3.87 unless I end up getting more of them for more plants.

If I were to pay for something expensive just to save a few watts, it would really suck if it stopped working after paying a few hundred dollars. Metal halide bulbs are known to last for a few years with regular usage, and I hardly use mine. The biggest point in having this powerful of a light at such a close distance is to ensure that these luffa seedlings don't end up too stringy to transition to outdoor conditions.
canadianplant
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Re: Starting seeds for spring for gardening or perennials

Post by canadianplant »

Oh, Im definitely not saying it wont work, and I would do the same thing getting such a good deal on that hilide ballast and bulb. I spent 30 bucks on my strip ballast, and another 20 on bulbs.
stevelau1911
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Re: Starting seeds for spring for gardening or perennials

Post by stevelau1911 »

I'm not sure if they have craigslist in Canada, but that's a good source for useful stuff people don't want anymore.

I never buy stuff at list price because most of the time, items are grossly overcharged. Even stuff like computer hardware and electronics would be better off if you get them from the 2ndary market or straight from a manufacturer.



Also just letting you know that after only 3 days of planting those germinated luffa seeds, a few of them are starting to push out of the soil, and they look pretty healthy. The night time low there gets down to around 56F while the fish tank at 80% insulation and lots of reflective foil gets it up to 94F. The only thing I'm afraid of now is if the humidity bags will still make them etoliate despite having good light.
stevelau1911
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Re: Starting seeds for spring for gardening or perennials

Post by stevelau1911 »

Just an update on this project, All 8 of the luffa seeds sprouted however 1 of them directly under the bulb, approximately 6 inches away got killed while another one got partially burned so at super close distances, it can be overkill. This close of a distance may be even more powerful than full sun, at least at this time of the year as luffa seedlings typically don't get killed by the sun. Anywhere within 8 inches or less of the bulb may be too powerful for these little seedlings to handle.

I have since increased the distance to more like 12-20 inches away which means that I can get a lot more seedlings growing under there. I'm currently germinating another batch this week because I have so much space under the light now that I know that the seedlings no longer need to be touching the bulb to get the benefit. I feel that a 400 watt metal halide is probably more like 40X the power of an 85 watt cfl despite being relatively the same size. The plants look like they are growing out in full sun with the short stems and huge seedling leaves despite only getting about 3 hours of artificial light per day. The real test will be when they get moved outdoors, but I still intend to ease them into full sun as there is a lot more to outdoor conditions than the intensity of the sun.

Here's a picture of one of the healthy seedlings looking short and stocky like it should under a powerful light which supplements the south facing window light.
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This was the poor setup that I had last year which resulted in the death of 100% of the seedlings. First the cells were way too small, night time lows in the 40s were still too cold, and the heating pad it was on may have gotten too hot which could easily cook these seedlings.
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stevelau1911
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Re: Starting seeds for spring for gardening or perennials

Post by stevelau1911 »

The bigger angled luffa seedlings are now growing their 2nd true leaf, and I know that these plants typically accelerate their growth shortly after this. Does it look tough enough to adapt to outdoor conditions?

I know I'll have to first wean them off the humidity domes, then slowly to outdoor conditions in the shade, partial shade, and eventually full sun in about another month. After another week or so, I may have to add some blood meal, epsom salt and ironite as the miracle grow moisture control potting mix doesn't seem to be helping them get green enough.

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stevelau1911
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Re: Starting seeds for spring for gardening or perennials

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I did remove the humidity domes as most of these seedlings are starting to look big enough not to get destroyed by the fungus gnat larvae if they were to dive in and go to work. I tried to protect most of the soil to hopefully discourage an infestation anyways, but here are some pictures showing the progress of these luffa seedlings after 3 weeks from seed for my older ones. The younger ones are only about 10 days old.

I have some magnolia seeds just barely starting to germinate under this 400 watt metal halide too.

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Watermelon seedlings
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Some tomato seedlings too.
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Strawberry seedlings
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Has anyone ever tried any of the commercial led lights? I guess their main benefit is that they can produce more intense light without the heat of typical metal halide or hps meaning you can have your seedlings up right up to the light without burning them. It's pretty expensive on eBay over $400.00 for a 810 watt light, but I'm pretty sure it may be possible to get a quote for something less than half the price on either alibaba or broker bin.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pro-7-Band-Hydr ... 9736508%26
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Re: Starting seeds for spring for gardening or perennials

Post by Tarzanus »

I'd also like to know about that LED light. I wanted to experiment a bit with warm white, cool white and red/blue combination, but never really decided to buy all bunch of them. I did however used 20W cool white this winter to bring up my Chimonocalamus pallens seedlings and Cyperus papyrus seeds I have lying around for a couple of years. I think it showed potential. Seedlings were growing OK, I haven't noticed any unnatural elongation of stems, that would indicate lack of light. I did find out that peppermint (Mentha piperita) grew strangely. Leaves were all tiny. And I mean really small, like two or max. three milimeters long. Leaves got purple to almost black hint of color, plant had grown a lot of vines with a lot of these small leaves. It did not look like peppermint. It was growing OK and did not show any signs of stress, well it needed quite a lot of water, so from time to time I managed to forget about it and I found out it was dehydrated. Couple of leaves and branches/vines died, but it recovered in a couple of days. I've recently got it outside to see if it starts growing normally again.

I think that peppermint plant shows that only cold white LED lamp isn't enough. Perhaps it doesn't show from the beginning, but plants may show it after a while. If someone could repeat the test, I'd be curious about the result. :)
canadianplant
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Re: Starting seeds for spring for gardening or perennials

Post by canadianplant »

Steve - Things look good! The thing with LED, is that you have to watch the light spectrum. You would need the cool white, and a broad spectrum set, probably one used to salt water aquariums (gives a broad red to violet spectrum). You could try one of those light therapy lamps, which is supposed to simulate sunlight (daylight spectrum). These are expensive but seem to work (at least for SADD).

TArzanus - The thing with mint, is that almost all types need to be divided, not seed grown to get the proper species. Even "peppermint" will end up with a ton of variation. I have 2 pots and one is tall, with large leaves, one is stumpy, with shorter leaves. If you want mint, just to to the grocery store, and buy some fresh mint and root it in water. mine roots in a few days.
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Re: Starting seeds for spring for gardening or perennials

Post by Tarzanus »

Canadianplant, it's last year's cutting that rooted and was kept during winter. It was normal last year outside, but it started to grow stranger and stranger during winter under lamp. It might also be related to the fact that it was kept in container, that it might have dried out too quickly and had less than normal amount of nutrients. Well, i did use fertilizer and water it all the time, but who knows..

It's a couple of days outside now, I'll see if it reverts into it's normal form.
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Re: Starting seeds for spring for gardening or perennials

Post by stevelau1911 »

They do basically look like they are growing under full sun outdoors with the intensity of the 400 watt metal halide from under 1ft of distance, but thing I'm interested in is if the LEDs can make them even stronger so I may go ahead and ask for some quotes from some of the companies that supply these lights. Some people on youtube say they work pretty well, but I've also read about LEDs being inferior to older technology, perhaps due to less brightness per watt. Something else to consider is, without the heat and intensity of a metal halide, will a LED setup really produce plants that are strong enough to adapt to outdoor conditions?


Another thing that I've started to do is add a little bit of fertilizer with bone meal, Gibberelic acid, myccorhizae, and ironite. I also intend to add some epsom salts on my next watering. I ordered some pure chicken manure for them which will hopefully get them going once they go outside, but I'm not sure how much of it I can add so I'm only planning to use a little bit per plant.

Is a $17.34 investment for a 15lb bag of pure chicken manure a decent price? http://www.ebay.com/itm/271193216300?ss ... fresh=true
canadianplant
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Re: Starting seeds for spring for gardening or perennials

Post by canadianplant »

IF your looking for manure, i would call around to local farms. If you muck it up yourself they might even give it away
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Re: Starting seeds for spring for gardening or perennials

Post by foxd »

I've tried the cheaper LED panels and not been impressed.
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stevelau1911
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Re: Starting seeds for spring for gardening or perennials

Post by stevelau1911 »

canadianplant wrote:IF your looking for manure, i would call around to local farms. If you muck it up yourself they might even give it away
I will keep that in mind the next time I need some strong fertilizer. After taking off the humidity dome, it looks like the leaves on these seedlings have thickened up even more while the stems keep getting fatter. I'm starting to think that this light at close distance may be even better than full sun as the leaves feel like cactus now. I doubt that fungus gnat larvae could penetrate these stems if they happen to get in there now.
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Re: Starting seeds for spring for gardening or perennials

Post by JWH »

I planted garlic chives and bunching onions several weeks back in big outdoor planters. They finally are sprouting.
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